Lee Chong Wei ( 李宗伟 )

Discussion in 'Malaysia Professional Players' started by tbleong, Jan 8, 2007.

  1. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    He's been suffering from a kind of LD syndrome for quite a while (just check his records here), incurable, it seems - that's why he must come here to get his 'medicine' once in a blue moon or he can't function properly. Poor fellow.:p:D:)

    He also reminds me of the modern Flat-Earthers, if you know what I mean.:rolleyes:
     
    #14301 Justin L, Jul 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
  2. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    Sure hurts for LD fans. Sorry.

    In terms of the number of Olympic medals won by badminton players, LD is not number one.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_medalists_in_badminton

    Gao Ling is the all-time leader for the most Olympic medals in badminton, with two gold, one silver, and one bronze;
    Kim Dong-moon (two gold, one bronze) and
    Gil Young-ah (one of each) are second for the most medals in badminton, each with three. Gao, Kim, and Zhang Jun are the all-time leaders for the most gold medal wins, with two. (Of course this also includes Lin Dan now.)

    Is LD the Greatest Of All Time (GOAT)?

    I would say he is ONE of the greatest. He may be the greatest during his time, but there were great players too during their time. However comparison is difficult and not as meaningful because great players in the past played under different conditions. We must also not forget that future stars may emerge with better records.

    By the way, I would consider LCW as one of the GOATs. :)

    But if you include sportsmanship as one of the criteria, then you have to consider the following remarks on LD:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lin_Dan

    2008
    Lin started the season with a defeat in the final of the Korea Open to Lee Hyun-il. It was a match filled with controversy as Lin had a scuffle with South Korea's coach Li Mao after a line call dispute. Lin refused to apologize and received no punishment from Badminton World Federation (BWF) after its probe of the altercation. In March he suffered another defeat to his compatriot Chen Jin in the final of the All England Open, which was followed by press accusations that Lin "gave" the match to Chen in order to increase Chen's ranking points for Olympic qualification. In the following week, Lin won his first Swiss Open. At the Asia Championships, Lin was again accused of helping his compatriot when his loss to Chen Jin in the semifinals ensured Chen's qualification for the Olympic Games
    On April 10, 2008, Lin was involved in yet another controversy when he struck coach Ji Xinpeng in front of his teammates and the media during the warm-up tournament ahead of the Thomas Cup. The incident was allegedly triggered by him being unhappy with Ji's arrangement of the starting line-up for the tournament.

    2011

    Lin began the year with a withdrawal in the Malaysia Open's quarterfinals, which marked his third withdrawal in a row since late 2010. This action caused criticism mostly by Taufik Hidayat, who wanted the Badminton World Federation (BWF) to investigate.[
     
    #14302 Loh, Jul 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
  3. yuquall

    yuquall Regular Member

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    First of all, isn't this LCW thread?

    You sound no less like a bitter badminton fan. Surely you are not the one who should lecture anyone about Sportsmanship.
     
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  4. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    Sorry you are mistaken. I don't lecture, I'm just quoting.
    I'm just an ordinary badminton fan who prefers to see players setting a good example.
     
  5. shooting stroke

    shooting stroke Regular Member

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    I remembered that i fell from my sofa twice during this event... first one fell down because over celebrating after Datuk won in the semi ( doesn't hurt and not even a single scratch happened)...... 2nd time fell down in frustration after Datuk lost in the final.........damn that hurts.
     
  6. yuquall

    yuquall Regular Member

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    Nah, coming from a so-called ordinary badminton fan, it didn't seem to be just quotes.
    Ordinary non-biased badminton fan wouldn't downgrade any players status (which has been accepted by MOST badminton fans in the world actually) just because he does NOT prefer them due to personal preferences.
     
  7. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    There is no downgrading.
    Just that my opinion differs from yours.
     
  8. super-g

    super-g Regular Member

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    Wikipedia says: "Sportsmanship is an aspiration or ethos that a sport or activity will be enjoyed for its own sake, with proper consideration for fairness, ethics, respect, and a sense of fellowship with one's competitors".

    Lee Chong Wei was given 8 month doping ban. He was cheating to gain unfair advantage compared to other players. How does that kind of behaviour display sportsmanship? How many of LCW titles are won by cheating? None? All? Nobody knows. But thanks to doping ban I would not rate him high when talking about all-time best players.
     
  9. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    It was a most unfortunate incident as LCW never had the intention to cheat, as reported here. The prescribed drug was not performance-enhancing but generally used for anti-inflammatory, injury rehabilitation purposes:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Chong_Wei

    Doping
    In October 2014, local media reported that the Badminton Association of Malaysia confirmed that one of the nation's top shuttlers tested positive for dexamethasone after urine samples were taken during the World Championships in late August.[The identity of the shuttler was not revealed but was widely believed to be Lee Chong Wei. Dexamathasone is not a performance-enhancing drug but a commonly-administered anti-inflammatory corticosteroid that is not illegal when used off-season for injury rehabilitation, but deemed illegal if discovered in an athlete's body during competition.

    On 11 November 2014, the Badminton World Federation confirmed that Lee was temporarily suspended from competing due to an apparent anti-doping regulation violation. The hearing was held on 11 April 2015 in Amsterdam.

    On 27 April 2015, it was announced that Lee had been handed a backdated eight-month ban for his anti-doping rule violation. The panel was convinced that Lee had no intent to cheat and allowed him to resume his career by 1 May 2015. Lee was stripped of his silver medal from the 2014 World Championships but allowed to keep his two bronze medals from the 2014 Asian Games.
     
    #14309 Loh, Jul 17, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
  10. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    If people want to revisit the doping ban, please read year 2014/5 of this thread.

    Nothing to be gained by bringing up the same arguments.

    Mod
     
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  11. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    You know what's the problem with your post?

    First, you mean all medals carry the same weight - gold, silver and bronze or champion, 1st and 2nd runner-up ? Obviously not, just ask your idol Lee CW, and, don't forget , Lin Dan has silvers/1st runners-up too in World Championships, which doesn't count to you as only OG medals are mentioned (why so?). To me, that's fallacious as you're shamelessly biased , cherry-picking and selective in facts and evidence used.

    Second, you are comparing apples and oranges, that is, singles and doubles categories.

    Third, you included (suggested) sportmanship as one of the criteria when clearly we are talking about achievements in terms of titles won. Well, let me remind you it was none other than the great Peter Gade who proclaimed Lin Dan the Greatest Men's Singles Player ever, exactly, the GOAT. And I need not elaborate which other greats concur with PG , let alone the legions of fans all over the world who think likewise - just do a search "Who is the GOAT of badminton?" and there you have the answer.

    Of course, you are entitled to your own opinion (and bias, narrow-mindedness, prejudice, denialism, etc) if that makes you happy, just like the modern Flat Earthers. :-<

    Lastly, I can't help but question why you have to dwell on Lin Dan's past peccadilloes, if I may say so, repeatedly, to the point of fixation, obsession - it speaks volumes about yourself more than anything. As if Lin Dan never grew up, never learnt from his past "mistakes" 10-11 years ago, so we (by your logic) must never moved on from what happened in 2008 and 2010. Furthermore, we mustn't give a damn what provoked him in the 2008 incident with Li Mao and what Tang Xianhu said was caused by a misunderstanding regarding Lin Dan's altercation with Ji Xinpeng (we've discussed these two incidents before here if you care to dig into it).

    By the way, not that it matters or it's relevant (that's just your style), despite the Lin Dan -Li Mao incident for which BWF didn't punish him after investigation, Lee Hyun-il years later dubbed Lin Dan the "perfect shuttler". Enough said, even if you are not tired parroting the same old rigmarole like a broken record, I am tired reading it, even more so responding to it.

    Why don't you write an ebook about it ,save yourself having to rehash the same old tune, let those who are (still) interested download a copy for free, and kindly spare the rest of us the agony and boredom ?:rolleyes::)
     
  12. Cunning Linguist

    Cunning Linguist Regular Member

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    Feel free to re-read this comment of yours every time you're about to embark on another monologue about the achievements of Lin Dan. :)
     
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  13. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

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    I'm still here wondering why LD is being discussed in this thread. If comparing LD and LCW, okay, but that isn't happening. Just in case anyone cares, that comparison can hardly ever have a different conclusion than that LD was the better of the two, while LCW has set remarkable standards in consistency, longevity and overall number of titles won, LD has won almost the same number, and more importantly, won the vast majority of their encounters, meaningful or not. The only occasions of importance where LCW won that I can remember are the 2011 AE and 2016 OG SF.
    Then again, this is the thread of a player that achieved incredible things in a magnificent career, so maybe we should try to remain positive and not use this thread as a vehicle to make our dislike of other players known. I for one appreciate the incredible matches between the two that we got to see, especially the ones in 2011-2012 which were almost guaranteed to be a heart-stopping clash of epic proportions (similar to the JJS/LYD vs CY/FHF match-ups of the same years).
    Relax, grab a drink and watch one of those.

    Appreciate the unbelievable quality of badminton they provided you with. I haven't been that gripped by a match again, and I still get excited watching the major finals of those years. Being a fan of LCW doesn't mean you need to hate LD.
     
  14. super-g

    super-g Regular Member

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    I disagree with you. Now that his badminton career is officially finished we can discuss where he stands among other great players. In addition to tournament wins and other on-court records we have to count in other factors as well. Such as doping bans. I can not think of any other sport where someone caught using doping is even considered one of the all time greats.
     
  15. WhitePants

    WhitePants Regular Member

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    Here I disagree with your last statement. The nature of every sport is not same in this world. Badminton is a special case whereby yes, it's true that certain drugs are still banned, but unlike sports like triathlons, cycling, marathons (just to name a few) where doping may significantly improve an athletes stamina, badminton is a game about skill(which is what makes LCW an all time great). . No amount of drugs anyone takes is gonna give you the skill that Lee Chong Wei possesses. You simply cannot compare doping between sports like they are the same. Surely, doping in any sports is wrong but as the judging panel decided that Lee Chong Wei never intended to take any form of drugs that are illegal in badminton (anyhow I cannot deny it is his fault because as a professional he should've been wary of ANY form of medicine he consumes) hence allowed him to play after the temporary suspension. Surely many may argue that his doping scandal should deny him of his glorified status but for me I think the circumstances must be taken into account and certainly everyone has their rights to their own opinions.
     
  16. swsh

    swsh Regular Member

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    Barry Bonds amongst others. LCW wasn't even close as a case but to throw it out there anyway.
     
  17. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Surely any objective, impartial person can differentiate between him and me and distinguish right from wrong.:)
     
  18. utufop

    utufop Regular Member

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    Lol don't be so egotistic. Everyone has their own opinions what makes you think you are all so right(unless your statement is implying that you are wrongo_O). By the way is your surname Lin? You seem to be so fixated on writing about Lin Dan wherever you go even on this thread.
     
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  19. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    On what basis, and why only me ? I never made any excessive claims, only stating we ought to be objective and impartial. What are you reading into it ?

    You're only making an ad hominem attack. My quarrel with Loh isn't even about LCW, whom on more than one occasion I've stated he is one of the all-time greats despite never winning a WC/OG title.

    And what has whether my surname is Lin or not got to do with it ? Do you go round questioning every die-hard fan of LCW if they bear his surname ? Ridiculous.
     
    #14319 Justin L, Jul 18, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  20. utufop

    utufop Regular Member

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    You are not objective and impartial by any means. Look at what you have written.
    Your 2nd paragraph: Loh stated clearly in terms of Olympic medals, Lin Dan is not number 1 which is simply an interesting fact shared. By no means was he talking about other achievements due to the header he provided. You are jumping to conclusions that he is missing out on all the other achievements of Lin Dan. His paragraph was merely about the Olympic Achievements but you are jumping to conclusions.

    Your small 3rd paragraph: comparing doubles and singles badminton Olympic medals isn't comparing oranges to apples. I wouldn't count the efforts of a doubles Olympic medal any lesser then a singles Olympic medal since the badminton Olympic medal is what is concerned here.

    Your 4th paragraph. Loh stated nicely that Lin Dan may be the greatest during his time but there were and are players who were and will be the greatest of their times too. He then proceeds to add that LCW should be considered as one of the GOAT. At this point you don't have to jump to conclusions talking about how many players including Peter Gade thinks LD is the GOAT and how googling shows you that LD is the GOAT(Google can provide responses provided by anyone on the net to a point I found mainly either LCW and LD as answers).

    5th paragraph. You go ahead and tell us that we are entitled to our own opinions but further compare us to what? Modern flat earthers? The word "Great" does not simply refer to achievements. I wouldn't call a marathoner who won the event at the expense of ignoring a fainted marathoner in front of him during the race any great. I would call the one who at the expense of event positioning, goes out of his way to help the fainted seek medical attention truly great. Am I a modern flat earther to you? Please don't insult those who share a slightly different opinion on certain matters from you. I certainly believe the Earth is flat.

    Stop cyber bullying Loh with statements like "Surely any objective, impartial person can differentiate between him and me and distinguish right from wrong." in your other statement and adding a sacarstic smiley face behind. Your statements against him are so rash and critical that you fail to see the mildness in his statements meaning no harm. I get that you are a die-hard fan of Lin Dan as you state in your last paragraph and I can clearly see it in your posts defending him both in this thread and Lin Dan's own thread. I think you're jumping to conclusions too soon defending Lin Dan on every minute comment made on him.
     
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