question about crouching low

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by ralphz, Jun 21, 2019.

  1. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2016
    Messages:
    1,206
    Likes Received:
    246
    Location:
    london
    if crouching low is meant to help you move further, why is it that runners don't crouch that low?

    are badminton players meant to crouch as low as runners , or lower, and if lower, then why?

    I think I recall hearing that one should crouch low while moving but then once there priior to hitting, one shouldn't be crouching low . But then that suggests that crouching is for moving further, in which case why don't runners crouch so low?

    It seems like maybe the answer is that you crouch low when doing the kind of foot movement where one foot doesn't cross the other foot? (And runners don't do that movement)
     
  2. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    23,845
    Likes Received:
    4,811
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    They do! They do it for acceleration.

    Watch the 100m and 200m when they start from the blocks.
     
  3. ainchekar

    ainchekar Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2016
    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    27
    Location:
    India
    Runners don't have to change directions constantly. That's the difference.

    Crouching low aids agility and speed of movement in multiple directions.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6010 using Tapatalk
     
    DarkHiatus, kwun and ralphz like this.
  4. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2016
    Messages:
    1,206
    Likes Received:
    246
    Location:
    london
    so if you think they do it for acceleration then what's your theory on why they don't continue doing that for the whole 100M even when there are no blocks there?

    [​IMG]
     
  5. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2016
    Messages:
    1,206
    Likes Received:
    246
    Location:
    london
    thanks, that sounds very plausible.. do you have any examples of other sports where they do that?
     
  6. speCulatius

    speCulatius Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2017
    Messages:
    1,129
    Likes Received:
    1,210
    Location:
    'round here....
    • Fencing (even without sideways movements)
    • Soccer
    • American Football
    • Basketball (despite the need to reach up to score)
    • Ice Skating
    • ...
    They cannot accelerate further, instead they need to take care of efficiency. They want to make use of a flying phase, a time span during each step with both feet off the ground. They cannot get any faster, they don't need to stop, they don't need to go the other way.
    Keep in mind that stopping is acceleration, too. Changing direction is nothing else than stopping one movement and starting another one, so it's acceleration.
     
    ralphz likes this.
  7. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    23,845
    Likes Received:
    4,811
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    You may be confusing speed for acceleration. Your picture shows the runners at speed and not accelerating.

    Badminton players don’t need to run 40metres on court so your picture is actually showing the wrong situation. If you check the sprinters first three steps, I am sure they will be crouching.
     
  8. visor

    visor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    16,402
    Likes Received:
    2,001
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Think of it as pouncing...like a lion towards its prey.

    On a badminton court, you only need to pounce 2-3 steps in doubles and perhaps 1 step more in singles. Pouncing allows you to accelerate and decelerate, and change directions quickly.

    Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
     
  9. kwun

    kwun Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2002
    Messages:
    41,048
    Likes Received:
    2,073
    Occupation:
    BC Janitor
    Location:
    Santa Clara, CA, USA
    [​IMG]
     
    ralphz likes this.
  10. Ballschubser

    Ballschubser Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2019
    Messages:
    339
    Likes Received:
    255
    Location:
    Germany
    Instead of thinking of it like a special technique you need to learn, think about intuitive behavior. Do you have kids or younger siblings ? When they run towards you and you want to catch them, what do you do ? You lower your base by "crouching" down, you outstrech your arms to quickly intercept them when they try to run past you.
    This is natural behaviour, you want to lower your base to stablize yourself, so it is easier to either take a hit or to generate force by just streching your legs.
    When you do sport, you will intuitively use these kind of movement pattern. To get better at sport, you need to reinforce and optimize these natural movement pattern.
     
  11. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2015
    Messages:
    1,207
    Likes Received:
    778
    Location:
    Manchester
    As pointed out, acceleration is different from speed. There is also the fact that the best configuration of your body to output maximum power at top speed, is different from the best configuration to output maximum power at zero speed.

    This is easily compared to a car:
    • at zero/low speed, the fastest way to accelerate a car is with a low gear, as a smaller gear has a higher mechanical advantage. Equally, the fastest way to accelerate a human being at the starting block is to keep the 'legs as short as possible' (or as close to the centre of gravity as possible), to get the best mechanical advantage. The legs are the same length, but the arc swept by a foot is smaller, as can be seen by the shorter stride length at the start of a race.
    • at high speed, the only way to output more power is with a higher gear (or to make the fuel efficiency better, which is more effective transfer of power). That's a larger gear with a lower mechanical advantage. Equally, the best way to efficiently deliver power and maintain top running speed in a human is to have the legs working at the longest stride length possible, without sacrificing cadence (frequency of steps).
    So the best acceleration from zero is by keeping low i.e. crouching. This doesn't matter what direction you are moving. The point of a split step is to ensure your speed is zero so that you can quickly move in any direction with balance and speed.

    If your speed is not zero at split step, then one or more directions that you move will be less effective than normal (either less balance, less speed, or both), and one or more directions will be more effective than normal (because you either are late to split step, or because you are trying to anticipate your opponent). A strong opponent will make sure that it's always going to be the less effective direction you're moving in, and that's why you'll always feel wrong-footed/heavy footed against a much stronger opponent - they often wait till you commit to a shot, then hit it the other way.

    If you are not crouched when in a perfect zero-speed split step, it is like you trying to start a car race in 2nd/3rd gear - you'll be a bit slower than you could be if you just crouched/started in 1st gear. If you are standing bolt upright with your hands by your sides, it's like starting a car in top gear - you'll either fall over/stall the car, or be forced to crouch/change to lower gear before moving, which is MUCH slower than fully crouching or even just standing slightly crouched (so slow in badminton, that you'll probably outright lose the point, unless the shuttle was already hit within your immediate racquet reach!)

    This is partially why we intuitively find LCW's classic walking backhand shots so 'ridiculous' - he is in the worst position possible (standing upright, walking), yet his anticipation, timing, and shuttle control is strong enough that he is able to return a stroke in a terrible body position, recover to a stronger configuration, then play out and win a rally at the highest level of play.
     
    #11 DarkHiatus, Jun 24, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
    ralphz likes this.
  12. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2016
    Messages:
    1,206
    Likes Received:
    246
    Location:
    london
    yeah thanks that makes sense, I see that'd be why they don't keep the low posture. And good examples re other sports.
     
  13. Cesium

    Cesium Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2018
    Messages:
    262
    Likes Received:
    81
    Occupation:
    Web Developer
    Location:
    Canada
    Couching low is for when you don't know which direction you need to move.

    In running you only have one direction to move which is forward
     
  14. Budi

    Budi Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2019
    Messages:
    1,858
    Likes Received:
    893
    Location:
    Indonesia
    Try running at your highest speed & then stop suddenly with standing pose. Coz of gravity & your body weight momentum from running will push you upfront & finally your head will hit the ground hard. Watch running sport up to the end & see how the runner stop. They decelerate slowly instead of sudden stop. Badminton is a fast sport & slow act is a no no.

    Then try running zig zag with bigger step & low your body as low as you can. You gain less max speed but you get more stability if you need to stop suddenly or change path.

    High pose get less gravity pull than low pose & for that high pose good to achieve max speed yet lose acceleration as you fly off the ground more often. The other side is good to accelerate & control but but bad for high speed.

    Like car race for example.
    Terain with more turn & sort straight path will be good for car with higher acceleration. Then if the path is more of straight, car with high max speed will be better for it.
     
    ralphz likes this.

Share This Page