Difference between Hard Smash and Fast Smash

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by minions, Nov 27, 2018.

  1. minions

    minions Regular Member

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    I just want to know the difference and how to execute those smashes. In Fuzhou China Open, Kevin did smash with over 400 kmh despite not being hard hitter. Does smashing faster equals smashing hard?
     
  2. Ronster

    Ronster Regular Member

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    Not really sure but a different measuring gauge might have been used?
     
  3. yuquall

    yuquall Regular Member

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    Hmm I don't think they are exactly the same.

    Just imagine a small car and a truck running at the same speed. if they both to hit a wall, I am sure the truck would have caused much more damage than the small car. :D
     
  4. Ronster

    Ronster Regular Member

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    Well i suppose shuttlecocks have relatively the same mass so if they are travelling at the same speed, they should have the same momentum.

    From what i understand in the current subject im taking, a hard smash flexes the stringbed more so the shuttle stays on it longer. This causes higher linear momentum.

    I guess the difference with a fast swift smash is that it cuts the air swiftly so it travels the same speed as a hard smash in its initial path but it loses velocity faster too. While for the hard smash, it keeps its momentum so the loss of velocity is lesser.

    I think the radar guns measure the speed of the shuttle as it leaves the strings so a quick swing will generate higher initial velocity. That might be the case for kevin.
     
  5. Hbmao

    Hbmao Regular Member

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    But the shuttle is the same. If the shuttle’s trajectory is the same then “hard” and “fast” should mean the same thing. In baseball a “hard” thrower throws the fastest fastball. Similar in tennis.

    However if the trajectory is different, e.g the “hard” hitter causes a steeper angle, then they could be different. As after all, it’s the response time that matters, and time is distance traveled divided by speed.

    The case given by OP could be relevant, as given Kevin’s statue, he may not be able to produce a steep smash when he uses full power. Pure speculation as I didn’t see the play.
     
  6. justplaynow77

    justplaynow77 Regular Member

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    That is not a valid parallel - in your case the mass of small car and truck are different. In Kevin's smash case, the mass remains constant (the shuttlecock).

    Plus.. The amount of force Kevin exerts for a high speed (high velocity) smash also has to be large (Force = mass x acceleration, where this acceleration gets the shuttlecock from negative velocity - it travels toward him so velocity is negative - to 400+ km/h velocity) and with mass being constant (the weight of the shuttlecock), the higher speed means higher momentum (Momentum = mass x velocity).

    So I think they called Kevin not being a hard hitter not with respect to that particular smash, but more on his style of play. That 400 km/h smash should have been fast AND hard. IMHO CMIIW please all physics guru and afficionados jump in :)

    Oh it could also means that Kevin is efficient in his move, so he can generate such a hard and fast smash while not using as much energy as it normally is needed i.e. he doesnt waste energy when he smashed that (a hard hitter might mean someone who uses massive force when hitting smash, and some of the force are wasted in other forms).
     
    #6 justplaynow77, Nov 27, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018
  7. Hbmao

    Hbmao Regular Member

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    The OP cites the shuttle speed so it really doesn’t matter how that speed was generated. If The same speed is produced from a “hard” smash, then the only possible way the two cases are different is that the shuttles travel on different paths.
     
  8. yuquall

    yuquall Regular Member

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    Just saying Kevin's smash is fast but not enough power compared to the same speed smash hit by Fu Haifeng. The opponent (the receiving end) would feel the difference the instant the shuttle touches their racket.

    The speed radar for the smash is different now too. Mads Kolding so far held the fastest record I think, if the record had not been broken. I don't think he is a hard hitter either.
     
  9. R20190

    R20190 Regular Member

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    I'm sorry but this is nonsense.

    A hard smash = a fast smash. It's the same thing.

    How a player generates the power is a different question (which depends on lots of factors) but you can't say someone is not a hard hitter if he/she can hit a 400km/h smash!

    KSS may not look it but he can hit pretty hard. However like Mohammed Ahsan he has to put everything into it and be in position perfectly to do so. I haven't studied KSS's technique properly but with MA, he has a very delayed pronation technique which helps him generate the extra power. But he can only do it if he has the time. The amount of effort he has to put in to do this means he cannot sustain it for too long - just like KSS.

    You will notice that KSS can only hit 1, possibly 2 hard smashes and then he is out of puff.

    Whereas when you compare FHF's technique he is relatively relaxed with a very fluid action and does not put everything into his smashes. So I'm guessing FHF can actually hit harder than he does in competition but by not giving it everything he can sustain the attack for longer. He also doesn't need do this as his technique and physique gives him better efficiency.
     
  10. lurker

    lurker Regular Member

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    btw, how is the smash speed measured during the game?
     
  11. khoai

    khoai Regular Member

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    Not all smashes are the same due to the birdie's natural one-sided spin. If you are right-handed, when you hit the birdie with pronation, you sort of add reverse spin to the birdie similar to reverse slice. The added spin counters the natural spin and slows the birdie down. A lefty smash would add more spin to the birdie, making go faster. Think about a propeller of an aircraft rotating normally vs reverse. That's why most the smashing records belong to lefties, including FHF and TBH.
     
  12. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    I've often heard about this theory. Is there a slow mo video or lefty vs righty smashing a bird to show the shuttle spin?

    Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
     
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  13. khoai

    khoai Regular Member

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    No, I don't have any showing the comparison. But in this video, you can see the spin of birdie following pronation of right-handed arm.



    There's a blog post from a guy doing aerodynamic wind tunnel research with shuttlecocks and his findings are somewhat similar.

    http://www.publicspace.net/blog/badminton/2016/04/06/badminton-shuttlecock-spin-aerodynamics/

    In fact, he's a member on this forum and you already discussed it here as well:

    https://www.badmintoncentral.com/fo...s-between-straight-and-reverse-slices.163142/
     
    #13 khoai, Nov 28, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
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