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Discussion in 'General Forum' started by Whittalboy, Apr 4, 2018.

  1. Whittalboy

    Whittalboy Regular Member

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    #1 Whittalboy, Apr 4, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
  2. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    What standard are you in your local location. What sort of tournaments do you enter?

    It all depends on which country you are located in. There is a 50 yo plus guy who plays under USA in international tournaments

    Obviously he has the money to 'invest' in it.

    Whether you can win a tournament at that level is another matter and probably not.
     
  3. llrr

    llrr Regular Member

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    This. If you take out the cheesy way of playing for a country that does not take badminton seriously and instead compare with the standard of somewhat badminton serious nations, then I would think it's probably too late, especially if you want to win S300 level tournaments. It might even be too late to enter S300 tournaments.

    To give some idea of the level in the video, in Australia it is B grade level, and there is A grade then Open Grade where state players play. None of the state players in my state are good enough to play for the national team, and nobody from the Australian national team can win a S300 event. You'd probably need to train for years just to get to a somewhat national player level and then there's the matter of winning super series tournaments.
     
  4. shooting stroke

    shooting stroke Regular Member

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    The system here in Msia (and most likely in other country also), for any pro players who which to represent the country in any competition regardless in what level/tier it is under the BWF calendar, he must request BAM permission to do so. It is very likely BAM will not send your name to represent the country if they think you dont have what it takes to make the cut and its better just to give that chances to their own fleet of players under the BAM training camp. Even if you might get to that "pro" level while your age is still within "competitive" capabilities, unless if you'e playing in a local or club cirrcuit and has strong financial strength to buy yourself in than, age is something you wont be concern very much as you can be a " pro" at any age level if you can still play and give great results locally

    IF.......IF.......... you want to become the other version of a "pro", whereby your achievements and credibility, without doubt, can earn you the privelage to play for your country if you request so ( for example Tan Boon Heong).... and then go to hopefully win the SS (and other higher level of competition under the BWF calendar).... and eventually, replace Lin Dan in the process.....then IMHO. at your age, if you were here in Msia and unless if you are somebody which was previously playing for Msia and also frequently kicked Iskandar, chong wei feng......and zulfadli ( after his match fixing trial) @$$ easily then....turning your career into pro is a good and never too late kinda choice. However, if you are just that local player which can play descently well in the local circuit and now trying to up your game by turning into a pro by wanting to play in the BWF SS circuit then you might want to compete first with all the state players and if you beat them all then.... make your career further way up till the national level before turning into a pro......hopefully at that moment you still have that competitive "age" time.
     
    #4 shooting stroke, Apr 4, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2018
  5. Whittalboy

    Whittalboy Regular Member

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    Okay, I understand now. it seems like the issue is whether my country Korea, will allow me(who doesn't even train with them) to compete in some international tournaments representing Korea or not even if I get to that level. Ha... I didn't know about this part.

    So, Korea can only send like a select few? for SS tournaments, only like 3 from each country can enter or something? I guess it also has to do with money right? because Korean badminton team has to obviously pay for their players' flights food and etc. What if I tell them I'll pay for that?
     
  6. llrr

    llrr Regular Member

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    If you have sufficient funds it's entirely possible to play without being "employed" by a country's association. However, even doing this you will still need to reach the required level to play on the BWF world tour events like the S300, which means winning lower level tournaments.
     
  7. shooting stroke

    shooting stroke Regular Member

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    I still doubt that despite even IF you are very wealthy......unless if the national body that governs the country badminton activities is a corrupted or managed badly , then money still cannot buy you the ticket that earn you the place to represent and shoulder your country name and pride.

    Unless if you dont care much about reputation then sending somebody from a country with rich history of great badminton legends just to be smack like a clown in the SS circuit then...... i also think that i'm going to korea now bcoz i think i want to sell my house, my mavic air drone.....and my neighbour green anaconda to buy myself in to feel how to represent korea in the 2020 Olympic in Tokyo bcoz for damn sure i cant do it here in Msia.
     
  8. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Then you have to ask them. Also, you have probably have to enter all those minor tournaments that no other Koreans enter at first. This is just to get a world ranking.

    In fact, I saw at last HK Open, a player playing under English registration. The guy has a Chinese name and lives in HK. Not sure how he did that. He was a good player, but just not a 'pro' player.
     
  9. ucantseeme

    ucantseeme Regular Member

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    It is not uncommon that a guy play for a different country. E.g. Nikolas from BC.;) There are a few examples on the tour. They just enter the qualifying of GP or GPG but don't get far. If this is your understanding from a pro player, this aim is more realistic than getting into a SS final.

    I suggest first to play all tournaments in your area and reach a placing of 1st-3rd on regular base. Than go more far and win the other and bigger tournaments. A base and success of local tournaments, will bring you closer to your dream. Than you can aim for playing for a team at state level. When you get attention from several teams and their interest, you are a very good player. Like in every other job, you need to have references. Especially Korea has so many good and talented players. Younger than you and maybe, no offence, better than you. I can imagine that this would be very hard, so I think it's too late. To get your foot in the door depends on the country. According to the video and your own words, it seems like you are on par with the &up guys? A few more background about you would be interesting to answer serious. Did you won tournaments at your city or area very often? What is your current enviroment and regime? Are you playing for a team, what type of players surround you? Any video of you playing?
     
    #9 ucantseeme, Apr 5, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2018
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  10. LD rules!

    LD rules! Regular Member

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    Korea is a really bad association for this as well. The vast majority of associations will let you play internationally abroad regardless of your standard at your own expense. Korea as well as India do not allow you to sign up unless you have specialist permission to do so. You can if you want find another country that is willing to submit your entry if you are that desperate to play.

    What I will say is, if you are passionate and want to give it a go then try your best, but do not expect to make any money, and expect it to be a very very difficult process. Qualifying in any tournament is far more challenging than you would think, unless you get lucky. You will not win any tournaments like Swiss open or something, but maybe you can win a couple of games somewhere. The rate of improvement takes so long the better you get to get to that next stage.

    I am not trying to put you off your dreams, but from experience as someone who has attempted to do what you want to do from a lot younger age, it is extremely challenging and requires a lot of money as well as mental toughness to get through the obstacles that you will face on a daily basis.
     
  11. Whittalboy

    Whittalboy Regular Member

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    ya competing in lower tournaments to get to further stages is not a problem. just need to make the decision if I should give up or dedicate years of my life on this to get to that S300 level.

    No I haven't entered any tournaments. I'm currently in the UK but I leave on summer and then I'll decide what to do. one of the path is to go to india/Malaysia and train like pros do for years to reach the standard I want or get a job like we all 99% of the people do.
    I'll try to get some videos but ya like in the video, just around that level not significantly better.

    You aren't being harsh. I don't get offended by stuff like this. I like being realistic. "if you want to find another country..." here you mean getting another citizenship right? that's the only way to play for another country. Someone told me that Korea won't allow individual players to compete in international tournament unless they're over 31 years of age. I need 5+years of training anyway.
     
  12. LD rules!

    LD rules! Regular Member

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    Do you have a UK address? My advice is if you do is to enter a international tournament in the time you are still in the UK, you do this by emailing Badminton England etc. You do not need to be 'born' in England to enter tournaments, but you can play under the representation of England (I know people doing the same thing as they are not able to represent their country of birth)

    Now if you do it like this, you will get your BWF ID, and it means in future you will have no hassle. Korea will never ever let you enter a tournament but if you do it like this you will be in the future allowed to enter BWF events like international challenge etc. You will not be eligible for tournaments like world championships and olympics as you wont have an english passport, but I don't think you will get to that level anyway (no offence!)

    By doing this you will at least leave the door open in future to play internationally if you wish.
     
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  13. Whittalboy

    Whittalboy Regular Member

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    Are you sure? Just me applying via online and paying that yearly fee grants me the right to enter even international tournaments aside from the bronze-open tournaments in the uk?
    And if yes, if i do compete in years later, ill be representing england if i compete under that Bwf id?
     
  14. noobtron

    noobtron Regular Member

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    Many Canadian players train overseas and come back to compete. Just make sure you can support yourself because don't expect much money from competition alone.
     
  15. ucantseeme

    ucantseeme Regular Member

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    If you never played and won any provincial or town or club tournament several times in the past ten years with ease, you are too far away from becoming a pro in terms of a top 1000 player. Regardless how much efforts you will put in, but honestly your time has passed by. You can't learn what all players learned from 8 to 15yo and don't have much time to get the experience from the tournaments what people got from 15-20yo within a few years all together.
     
  16. LD rules!

    LD rules! Regular Member

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    You will most likely need to enter an international event before you leave the UK just to get the ID, they don’t apply on your behalf without you wntereing a tournament. There is a specific email that is for this on the BE website. You’d be representing England but you can never represent Korea outwith the National Team so it seems your best bet
     
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  17. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    This is a BIG hurdle you need to overcome if you wish to go pro/semi-pro. You cannot train for 3+ years solid and expect to then enter the Swiss Open and do well (aside from the need for ranking points). You can't even expect to do that with 10+ years training.

    Tournament play is vital as PART of training, therefore the sooner you get into playing tournaments right now, the better your mental preparation will be.

    The strongest players are used to losing. Lin Dan didn't start his massive win streak overnight - he got knocked out plenty in pro tournies before that, and I'm sure even more lower level non-international competitions before that.

    Better get used to losing now, but forming your book of tournament experience, such that your mental state will be stronger and you'll be more resilient as a player going forward.

    I'm not saying expect to be beaten before you play a match, but that there is a whole side of badminton that deals with playing on-form in a tournament setting, with the adrenaline pumping HARD. I've recently played tournament matches where my hands can't stop shaking afterwards to the point I'm spilling water out of a cup, and I would never get it to that extent in training. I've been playing senior bronze tournaments for almost 2 years now...it's SO different to training, or even in a mock/local tournament.
     
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  18. Raph

    Raph Regular Member

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    I do not have first hand experience with high-level badminton, being a weekend warrior myself, but I used to be an alpine ski coach and there's no way I could or would in good conscience advise a 26 year old athlete to sacrifice the earning potential and time to try to have at best a shot at being a middle of the pack journeyman athlete. From the tone of your post, I gather you are not financially indepent (you need to make money to live). This is an important factor.

    I know of one guy I coached when he was very little who was passed up to get on the provincial and then national team and still decided to become a ski racer fulltime (he was 21 when he took his decision). Guys at that age already compete in the highest echelons or they are out of game.

    He already had dual citizenship to a country where he could make the national team and he competed in FIS races for a few years (a few steps below World Cup, which would the equivalent of the Superseries), taking odd jobs here and there to pay for his training. To be frank, he was an okay skier at best (probably the equivalent of the B level video you posted in badminton terms) : good enough to smoke guys past their prime or really young skiers, but behind the curve against guys between 15 and 28.

    He got fed up after 3 years and moved back to Canada for school. Lack of ressources and progress motivated his decision to quit. Now, badminton is much, much, much less ressource intensive sport (courts are available year round while snow isn't), but the financial aspect is probably your biggest hurdle. Being an athlete is very costly even with support from your country's organizations and sponsors, so imagine doing this alone with self-funding. I'm not saying it can't be done, all I'm saying is it might be too late for you to realize your full potential if you consider your age and the fact that you would not use the ''normal'' developmental route, and any athlete who wins a S300 tournament WILL have realized his full potential.

    If your desire to become a pro is more rooted in the fact that you do not want to settle down and get a 9 to 5 job or you want badminton to be your job, there are other options available to you (i.e. getting into coaching, etc.). You can also get serious about your development as an athlete while not making badminton your life (i.e. competing in senior leagues, joining a serious club, etc.). That's the beauty of badminton compared to other sports where when you are out of school, if you're not already in the elite, there's no league or circuit to compete in and no coaching available.
     
  19. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Certain people need to experience it themselves to be convinced. But at least they get a life experience of having tried it, done it and once passed that phase, can move on in life more settled and focused. If he hadn't tried it, he would forever go on in life distracted by thinking "I should have tried it".
     
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  20. Raph

    Raph Regular Member

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    This is very true, but the OP would be against long, long odds and would sacrifice years of earning potential. My guy was only 21 : a lot of people haven't decided on a career at that age. At 26, most have already graduated college and went into the professional world (full disclosure : I was still in college at 26 ;)).
     

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