NEW: Fixed Height Experiment for Service

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by CantSmashThis, Jan 10, 2013.

  1. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2014
    Messages:
    1,008
    Likes Received:
    730
    Location:
    Germany
    Officially, it's being tested (it's an Experiment in BWF nomenclature). However, it's being tested at all top-level tournaments with the exception of the World Junior Championships, so the chances are fairly good that it will become the law in the future, at least for the top tournaments (juniors and national-level is a different story, too early to tell).

    The experiment runs until the end of the year and I'd expect an evaluation by BWF until the Annual General Meeting (AGM) in May 2019. That's the earliest it could become law.
     
    GingerCorslette likes this.
  2. Phonjomtien

    Phonjomtien New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2017
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Pattaya
    I agree with what you say about the coaches educating their players about what is and isn't allowed and that is not the fault of bwf. My main complaint is that a fault serve is still not easy to measure at all levels of play. I'm just wondering when the straight arm horizontal drive service will start.

    Sent from my U FEEL using Tapatalk
     
  3. Slade

    Slade Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2015
    Messages:
    166
    Likes Received:
    21
    Location:
    NY
    Not really, not any more than they currently check before each serve to make sure they are below their lowest rib, or 1.15, or whatever rule is in play. The laser would mainly be for enforcement of service height by the refs and replay cameras, players should practice to learn where 1.15m is for each of them.
     
  4. LenaicM

    LenaicM Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2018
    Messages:
    1,280
    Likes Received:
    1,035
    Location:
    Europe
    Totally agree with that. Saw many tall players at the All England open going as far as bending their knee. Felt like it was just to make a passive statement about the new rule. Did not really get why players like Axelsen made such a fuss about it on social medias. I really feel like the new rules is fairer and the previous one was actually putting taller players at an advantage.
     
    OhSearsTower likes this.
  5. Master

    Master Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Messages:
    2,145
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    Location:
    somewhere on earth
    Lund: BWF Optimistic of ‘Fairer Service Judging’

    [​IMG]
    The Badminton World Federation is optimistic that the ongoing testing of the Experimental Service Law (Fixed Height) is the first step to making service rules and service judging simpler and more objective.

    BWF Secretary General Thomas Lund says that, after trialling the fixed-height service experiment at two events so far, the world-governing body has received initial feedback from technical officials which has been positive and informative.

    The reaction from the global badminton community has been quite interesting. Feedback from umpires suggests the introduction of an instrument to help them in service-judging has helped. We have also noted some singles players have said they had no problem serving,” said Lund, acknowledging the critical views expressed by some players.

    There have long been complaints regarding the service laws in badminton and BWF wants to ensure greater fairness in service judging and how the laws are applied. Obviously, any time change is proposed – especially to such an essential aspect of a sport – there will be a wide range of views. We will take all of these into account.”

    Addressing comments by some of badminton’s high-profile personalities, Lund stressed that before any decisions were taken there was detailed consultation with “top coaches from a number of badminton’s powerhouse countries”.

    During our consultation meeting, coaches agreed to test various fixed-height service options in certain countries. There was consensus on that being the next step and we did that. Thereafter, we agreed to test the Experimental Service Law (Fixed Height) at BWF events – which is what we are doing now,” elaborated the Secretary General.

    Following the Badminton Association of Malaysia’s proposal last year to trial fixed-height serving – to which BWF membership agreed – BWF started experimental testing from 1 March. Testing started at the YONEX German Open on 6 March followed by last week’s YONEX All England Open Badminton Championships 2018. The Experimental Service Law (Fixed Height) mandates that“the whole of the shuttle shall be below 1.15 metres from the surface of the court at the instant of being hit by the server’s racket”.

    All Grade 1 events – except the BWF World Junior Championships – will undergo testing as will Grade 2 events (the HSBC BWF World Tour and BWF Tour Super 100 events) and continental championships in April. As of now, testing is expected to run until year-end.

    Lund disclosed that, depending on further feedback from the Experimental Period, “BWF would determine if 1.15 metres is the correct height or if it should be slightly higher”.

    Source : http://bwfbadminton.com/news-single/2018/03/22/lund-bwf-optimistic-of-fairer-service-judging/
     
  6. Master

    Master Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Messages:
    2,145
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    Location:
    somewhere on earth
    SERVICE HEIGHT EXPERIMENTAL PERIOD

    MAIN OBJECTIVE RE. THE EXPERIMENT/CHANGES REGARDING THE SERVE:

    • To make the service rules and the judging simpler and more objective to secure a higher level of fairness in matches for the players.

    BACKGROUND:

    Throughout a range of years players especially and also to some extent service judges have provided feedback that the service rules have been difficult to manage. Some of the weaknesses has been defined as the following – related to the two key service rules:

    • The height of the bottom rib for players varies depending on the player’s height. It is difficult for the service judge to determine the exact location of the bottom rib as this can be difficult to see under the player’s shirt. Other issues that complicate service judging are loose-fitting shirts and the fact that players often change their shirts during the course of a match. These circumstances can create inconsistencies in service judging – which players have complained about for some time.

    • Another law says that “the shaft and the racket head of the server’s racket at the instant of hitting the shuttle shall be pointing in a downward direction”. Especially around a flick serve the racket can become flatter and not pointing in a downward direction, which has led to many players being faulted – something many players have argued about. In connection with a flick serve, the movement of the racket is however so fast that it can be very difficult for the human eye to determine precisely every time if it is a fault or not. So this law has resulted in objections on whether the service judge is always able to detect faults accurately.

    • It has been clear for some time that the service laws and service judging related to the laws have been key areas of concern and many players (especially doubles players) have been struggling with the interpretation of these laws.

    • Furthermore the Badminton Association of Malaysia in May 2017 put forward a proposal to agree on a fixed service height at 1.10 metres – or whatever height was felt appropriate – after having tested the system in tournaments. This proposal was accepted by BWF and preparations have been ongoing to introduce the test, giving players a transition period before starting the test and making sure service judges were trained.

    RATIONALE FOR THE CHANGE:


    • Changing to a fixed height provides the following advantages:

    • Easier for umpires to determine the height (the bottom rib is not always easy to determine). This, in turn, will create consistency in service judging, which is one of the things players have been requesting.

    • The possibility of including tools to help service judges to assess the serve – which is difficult with a service height that can vary a lot depending on the player’s height. Presently, a conventional physical tool has been created for the Experimental Period. Feedback from many service judges has been that this makes it easier for them to assess the serve.

    • In the longer term, BWF is considering the development of a technology solution similar to what exists for line calls (Hawk-Eye Innovations). Such a development is complex, expensive and it will take time to ensure a consistent and reliable solution. This will be part of the development tasks once the preliminary results of the Experimental Period have been analysed.

    • Another consideration regarding the fixed service height is the question: “Why should a very tall player be able to serve from a much greater height than a small player?” The serve in badminton and especially in doubles is a very important technical stroke to get the rally started and can make a big difference. The net height is equal for all and in connection with especially a short serve, the height of the serve makes a crucial difference in how a serve can be precisely delivered to gain an advantage in the rally. Clearly it is therefore a big advantage for a tall player to be able to serve from a higher level than smaller players. The philosophy around the service law has therefore been changed to provide an equal opportunity for all in connection with the serve as this stroke starting the rally is a very important stroke to form the game of a player or a doubles pair. It seems unclear to BWF why some stakeholders argue that taller players should gain an advantage around the serve – though BWF recognises this has previously been the case. However, this does not mean a different approach cannot be adopted.

    • It has however been important for BWF to set a service height that is not unreasonable to very tall players. The first tests were conducted in a non-tournament environment and in one international tournament some years ago, and these tests were based on a service height of 1.10 metres. A number of the bigger badminton countries were then invited to provide feedback from tests in the national training environments, and feedback was provided that a fixed service height of 1.10 metres was probably too low, but a height around 1.15 metres was probably okay – though some said the service height should be set around 1.20 metres. A too-high service height can very easily result in an unreasonable advantage to the serving side (especially in doubles), so the service height in the experimental service system has been set at 1.15 metres. Compared to the original system with the height being determined by the “bottom rib”, then players with a height around 1.85 metres would have the lowest rib approximately around the height of 1.15 metres – and a height of 1.85 metres is still a reasonably tall player. But the main objective with the Experimental Period is to determine if 1.15 metres is the correct height or if it should be slightly higher.

    • The Experimental Service Laws remove the rule that the racket shall point in a downwards direction. This is really a simplification of the service rule and will make it easier for players to deliver the serve – and will remove a number of the faults being judged during tournaments. With the removal of this rule, it is still important that the service height is not set too high as this could provide a risk that a too “aggressive” serve can be delivered with being able to serve very high and being able to rotate the rackets upwards whereby a very flat and fast serve could be delivered – something which is seen to be disruptive to the sport and not what BWF or players are seeking to achieve. The service height is therefore being assessed in tandem with looking at how the removal of the rule related to the downwards direction of the racket will work.

    FIRST FEEDBACK:

    • The first feedback from umpires is that the physical instrument does make it easier to provide more consistent and reliable service judging. This will therefore provide better consistency and more fairness around this area.

    • Some feedback from singles players has indicated that serving is not a major issue. Some feedback has also come from some players – especially taller players – where the service height has been argued to be too low.

    • Some feedback argues that no changes should be considered. However, BWF cannot disregard years of feedback from players that there are problems around the consistency of service judging under the existing rules. BWF generally agrees that existing service regulations provide a challenge for service judges to rule on all faults and this does not ensure the fairness which BWF is seeking to achieve.

    • Very little or no feedback has yet been received from any players, coaches or other stakeholders to suggest other ways to deal with the problem around the service laws, but it is expected that more feedback will be received as the Experimental Period progresses.

    Source : http://bwfbadminton.com/news-single/2018/03/22/lund-bwf-optimistic-of-fairer-service-judging/
     
    visor, xiaoqiao and s_mair like this.
  7. GingerCorslette

    GingerCorslette Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2017
    Messages:
    461
    Likes Received:
    126
    Location:
    Asia
    Did they mention anything about the height/level of the service umpire's imaginary line of sight? Or should they be leaning against something like some of them did, or what if the umpire is too tall or too short? Surely it can be more systematised than middle aged men almost squinting through a line screwed to a rod. What if in a doubles game, the partner slightly blocks the view of the shuttle? Not being grumpy, just trying to say that if it's worth doing, it's worth doing right.
     
  8. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2014
    Messages:
    4,398
    Likes Received:
    1,223
    Occupation:
    N90 sycophant
    Location:
    SW UK
    Make the bottom of the net 1.16m. If it's not below the bottom of the net, it's a fault?
     
  9. Slade

    Slade Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2015
    Messages:
    166
    Likes Received:
    21
    Location:
    NY
    Or at least put a line on the net. Then cameras set at that height could easily see it. I don't think there needs to be a "complex" and "expensive" system such as Hawkeye to work.
     
  10. visor

    visor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    16,402
    Likes Received:
    2,001
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    So, the racket doesn't have to point in a downwards direction anymore? That would mean more drive serves are possible...
     
    Cheung likes this.
  11. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2014
    Messages:
    4,398
    Likes Received:
    1,223
    Occupation:
    N90 sycophant
    Location:
    SW UK
    Drive serves are a double edged sword anyway. If they become a real problem the downward thing will probably come back, but I doubt they'll be too much of an issue.
     
  12. speCulatius

    speCulatius Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2017
    Messages:
    1,129
    Likes Received:
    1,210
    Location:
    'round here....
    And that's easier to do within the maximum height when players are shorter, so does this rule favor shorter players?

    Another way would be to say that taller players are put in an awkward position by this rule while shorter players get more options to put pressure on their opponents with the first stroke of the rally.

    As much as I dislike the old rule and see a lot of advantages in a fixed service height, I'm not convinced yet.

    Neither do I see any better options. Any ideas? "Better" meaning that it creates a mostly neutral position without changing the game too much...
     
  13. Slade

    Slade Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2015
    Messages:
    166
    Likes Received:
    21
    Location:
    NY
    No rule is going to be perfect, I think it simply needs to be the most fair for the most players. That means outliers will have different advantages and disadvantages. Old rule favored the very tall and punished the very short, this somewhat reverses it. The nice thing about the new rule is the trajectory of the shuttle will have the same starting point, or at least the same maximum height starting point, since anyone can still serve from a lower position.
     
  14. noobtron

    noobtron Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2008
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    mars
    Long time lurker, I almost never post on here.

    But I HAVE TO say that this new service rule is the dumbest thing ever.

    There is no way for amateur clubs and tournaments to implement this. Service judges need to grow some balls and call serves properly and we would never have this issue in the first place
     
  15. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2014
    Messages:
    1,008
    Likes Received:
    730
    Location:
    Germany
    How so? You could easily get a line on the net for orientation. Even buying the service judge's aids should be no problem for any club. Note that illegal serves are often seen now, since there's nobody calling them. What changes if the height becomes constant?

    In addition, this rule is not necessarily meant for amateurs. National federations decide whether to adopt it or not.

    Actually, the prevailing feeling was the other way round, that service judges called too many serves. As far as I understand, the problem is also not so much that service judges call faults or not, but that a lot of fans get very emotional whenever a service judge calls a fault. The new rule opens the way to automated judging, which in the case of line judging seems to be much more accepted by fans and players alike.
     
    #455 phihag, Mar 26, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2018
    stanleyfm, visor and Slade like this.
  16. stanleyfm

    stanleyfm Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2017
    Messages:
    2,317
    Likes Received:
    828
    Location:
    Delft
    I am waiting till the time when we can get a review on service fault call too high from the appropriate height (and possibly a challenge system for the players)
    Should be the next step for bwf
     
  17. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    23,843
    Likes Received:
    4,809
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    On the other hand, because tall players have developed a bent knee posture from the beginning, this actually puts their centre of gravity lower right from the start and they can move their body quicker for the subsequent 3rd shot.
     
    GingerCorslette likes this.
  18. GingerCorslette

    GingerCorslette Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2017
    Messages:
    461
    Likes Received:
    126
    Location:
    Asia
    General consensus IMO remains in that the fixed height is okay and is a good thing, but service judges calling it is dodgy. Got to be somehow systematised like Hawkeye is for line calls.
     
  19. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    23,843
    Likes Received:
    4,809
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    I think it's here to stay. There are fewer ambiguities than the old method. It's not perfect but because it is clearer, there are less arguments and controversies in points.
     
    Griff88 likes this.
  20. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2013
    Messages:
    5,388
    Likes Received:
    4,198
    Location:
    Germany
    Interesting:
     
    phihag likes this.

Share This Page