Smartphones for line and service fault calls

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by pcll99, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    8,732
    Likes Received:
    630
    Occupation:
    Cylon
    Location:
    N/A
    If a machine can drive a car, I believe it would not be long that smartphones could serve as line and service judges, especially with the new 115 cm fixed height rule.

    For those of you who are programmers, I believe OpenCV is the way to go.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenCV
    https://opencv.org/

    I found some books which maybe helpful to learn about OpenCV, which you can download here:

    http://gen.lib.rus.ec/search.php?&req=opencv&phrase=0&view=simple&column=def&sort=year&sortmode=DESC

    An interesting youtube channel on the basics of OpenCV is here



    Let us know if you are doing a project of similar nature and share with us your experience and questions.
     
    #1 pcll99, Jan 12, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
    phihag likes this.
  2. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    23,845
    Likes Received:
    4,811
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    Before I open it and potentially waste my time on a wild goose chase :) I ask:

    A) What does openCV do that makes it advantageous?

    B) and can you offer your own personal experience first so that people can give a more specific answer?
     
  3. Littlejohn

    Littlejohn Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2012
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    21
    Occupation:
    Lazy Bum
    Location:
    Leighton Buzzard
    Firstly let me make at absolutely clear that I come from the good old dark ages where pen and paper were the norm and that I have a daily struggle with any sort of techy software. so please bear with me

    Having got that out of the way, can somebody explain to me just how using smartphones would work as line-judging devices, are you suggesting that they be run basically as cameras, placing them on each line? and that any line call challenge be reviewed as per the present hawkeye system. If so that by my calculation works out at 16 phones per court, 80 for something like the AE.
    Admittedly hawkeye is getting faster but do we really want to introduce an extra delay into the game whilst the software does its work
     
  4. stradrider

    stradrider Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    664
    Likes Received:
    313
    Location:
    Norway
    I think for line calls high fps are needed. Don't think phones would be usable for this...
     
  5. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    23,845
    Likes Received:
    4,811
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    I think you just killed this thread LOL.
     
  6. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    8,732
    Likes Received:
    630
    Occupation:
    Cylon
    Location:
    N/A
    Yes, high fps are needed. BWF's hawkeyes shoot at 660 fps, I think.

    I did some research and found that Sony Xperia XZ Premium can shoot at 960 fps.



    They are selling it on Amazon for US$599. That is kinda expensive; hopefully the price of slow motion smartphones would come down in 2 or 3 years. [Correction: Xperia XZs can also shoot at 960 fps, and Amazon is selling it for US$399 only. Sorry.]

    There are a number of phones that can shoot at 480 fps, which are cheaper. But are they good enough for badminton?
     
    #6 pcll99, Jan 12, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  7. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2014
    Messages:
    1,008
    Likes Received:
    730
    Location:
    Germany
    That's a question of good engineering! HawkEye is not automatic yet, there is a human operator, and there used to be(?) a human umpire in the process.

    In principle, there's no reason why the system could not be fully automatic and decide and relay the decision within 100ms, faster than any human could.
     
  8. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2014
    Messages:
    1,008
    Likes Received:
    730
    Location:
    Germany
    Slow-motion clips with this device are limited to 6 seconds though. Maybe this is a limitation of the storage, but it doesn't bode well. The best camera I have here is an ipad Pro, which is not very good. Nevertheless, I'll try to gather example video (something I've planned for a long time) to see whether a certain FPS count could be feasible at all.
     
    pcll99 likes this.
  9. visor

    visor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    16,402
    Likes Received:
    2,001
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    That's because of recording at 1080p. If you choose a lower resolution like 480p, you'll use up less bandwidth and memory, thus increasing the storage time.

    I believe the upcoming Samsung S9 will have 1000 fps recording
     
  10. visor

    visor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    16,402
    Likes Received:
    2,001
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
  11. Master

    Master Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Messages:
    2,145
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    Location:
    somewhere on earth
    pcll99 likes this.
  12. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    8,732
    Likes Received:
    630
    Occupation:
    Cylon
    Location:
    N/A
    the Samsung Galaxy S9 Plus has dual cameras!! It can perform dual video recordings!!

    That's gotta be better than BWF's Hawkeye!!
     
    #12 pcll99, Jan 12, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
    visor likes this.
  13. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    8,732
    Likes Received:
    630
    Occupation:
    Cylon
    Location:
    N/A
    thanks, Master. The Microsoft Kinect project also uses OpenCV, which I think is the standard library for this type of project. These researchers are based in Pune. The References in the Pune paper are very useful. It seems there are quite a bit of people writing codes in OpenCV for badminton.

    This guy from Guangxi uses background subtraction and morphological opening for badminton hawkeye!

    https://www.atlantis-press.com/proceedings/isrme-15/18589

    This guy from Denmark has done some good work as well.

    http://www2.imm.dtu.dk/pubdb/views/edoc_download.php/6575/pdf/imm6575.pdf
     
    #13 pcll99, Jan 12, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  14. Master

    Master Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Messages:
    2,145
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    Location:
    somewhere on earth
  15. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2014
    Messages:
    1,008
    Likes Received:
    730
    Location:
    Germany
    I believe that link has already been posted by @pcl99, one post above yours ;). To me, the image processing parts look interesting, although not spectacular. Especially when the video of the shuttle touching the ground is sent to the umpire, we can do with a relatively stupid analysis though, provided we can isolate the seconds when the shuttle touches the ground.
     
  16. Master

    Master Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Messages:
    2,145
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    Location:
    somewhere on earth
    Yeah, I didn't realize at the time I posted it.

    Yes, image processing is going to the limit and it is used a lot in badminton analysis. By image processing, the analysis made on every aspect of badminton. The moving of player, the shuttlecock movement, the repetition movement, the racket movement, a detailed motion pattern, and so on.

    Badminton should really jump further into these high tech things.
     
  17. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    8,732
    Likes Received:
    630
    Occupation:
    Cylon
    Location:
    N/A
    for service fault call, the app needs to track (a) the shuttlecock, (b) the racket, (c) both hands, and (d) movement of the player generally. Hope that's not asking too much for a US$399 smartphone. Fortunately, I think 120 fps or 240fps is ok for service fault call as the shuttle doesn't move very fast during service. I am currently reading Chapter 4 "Controlling a Phone App with Your Suave Gestures" of OpenCV for Secret Agents (by Joseph Howse) for ideas.

    for line call, i think the $399 Sony Xperia XZs should be ok as it has a 960 fps camera. I don't think the task is computationally demanding even for a smartphone. For that, I am reading Android Application Programming with OpenCV 3: Build Android apps to capture, manipulate, and track objects in 2D and 3D by Joseph Howse. Good stuff.
     
    #17 pcll99, Jan 16, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018

Share This Page