Can't compare doubles to singles games. Totally different tactics + strategies. That's why we don't see pros compete in both, esp now when the games pace is faster than before. before. Anyone remember when was the last time any pros compete, internationally, in both singles n doubles? I remember maybe Liem Said King, in late 80s. Anybody else?
How often or for how long? Also, his singles ranking drops tremendously since he starts to partner w/ Sozonov. http://bwfbadminton.com/player/53924/vladimir-ivanov/ranking-history?category_id=6&partner_id=0 Which indirectly says u can't do well in both cos they r totally diffrent
It's more of a feeling of being in control of the match. If you are not better than the other person, you will not feel it.
you feel it, I agree the only problem with this is: because human generally overestimate itself ("overconfidence-bias"), this can lead to the case that 3 of 4 players believe they are the best on court it would be my second biggest utopian wish to play doubles with myself against all the players i judge relatively same niveau that I have (after time-travel )
Totally! Hahah. I saw some Ted talk video that said 70% of drivers think they are the top 1% with driving ability and 55% of Americans think they are in the top 1% of income earners. (approximately--I forget the actual figures but they were hugely disparate like that.) I think competitive sports people tend to overestimate even more as if you lose to someone you tend to write it off as "I was having an off game" instead of "they are better than me." But then again, what you think of your ability doesn't really matter does it? It's more like what other people think of you and what level players ask you to play. I've also noticed that it's who DOESN'T ask you to play that is meaningful. A lot of lower level players who I used to play with (and got along with) stopped asking me to play and I was kinda sad. I thought I did something to offend them or something. Then I asked one why she didn't want to play with me anymore and she said "because you are too good. It's no fun playing with you anymore." Whoooops. So you need to pay attention to who doesn't want to play with you that will help revel your level too. Because what you think of yourself doesn't matter. It's what other players think of you that establishes your pecking order.
yep, exactly that is called overconfidence-bias! the drivers example is always the best one so true! in my club a lot of ppl who i played with all the time a few years ago dont ask me anymore. Because i escaped the very low level of play and they THANKFULLY noticed! Because I want good games but hate to say no if asked. I like to socialize with the clubmembers but on court its about competition for me. No competition = no fun. Might change when I get older... The other way around, there is a player who was better than me, but I reached his level now, is asking me for games since this year. I love to play vs him, have always been nice games for me. But he wanted to play vs better players so he often rejected me. "ah no no singles now..." --> plays another guy 5minutes later As soon as I will be clearly better than him I will pay that back..(well actually the biggest revenge I already got when we met at a league-match and I beat him ) So yeah, its a very good point to observe who asks you and what pairings are played. If you get the worst player most of the time, players think you are better. If the best player wants to play with you, you probably are the worst on court.
For anyone who is interested in the details: This is the Dunning-Kruger effect. I couldn't find the exact video that @Borkya is mentioning, but here is a Ted video created by David Dunning himself. If you can't decide who the best player on court is, maybe you can decide who the worst player is? In social or training matches where one wants even matchups, if you are consistently paired with the worst player, and still manage to win ≥50%, you are the best on court. Edit: Turns out I'm not only a turtle on court, but also when composing forum posts .
I agree with the above re: it's for others to judge your level. However, my experience is that other's perceptions of ability can be deep rooted and slow to change. I believe people have a very difficult time accepting the improvement in other players, mainly due ego / over-estimation of their own ability and having to accept that someone else has worked harder on their game, has greater talent / potential, or a combination of both.
Sorry I can't agree on this and don't understand this evening out of pair in club play. Never got an understanding for that but it's very interesting why people do this. For me an absolute disaster and normally never experienced this much at my club. Some people also like to pass the rotten apple to you. I'm only a doubles player, because I can't enjoy singles. It's a different game. You can't always have tight games. I love to play and read different people. Stick at a club with a few people in a small pool and a small window of skill is horror. I want to have a partner which fit with his style to me. This means fun to me. Regardless if we win or loose. Our satisfying performance is to me more important than the result. Maybe I'm a bit strange. There is nothing which disturbs me more if my partner don't use my created chance or is unable to create chances for me. Also antisocial partners mean no fun to me, regardless how good they are in the club ranking. I got asked by the strongest player and we destroyed a pair easy. I also got askes by weak player which complements me best out of the pool and destroyed a pair. Especially in doubles good and bad is a flexible term. I can't rate myself. If I partner a well fitting partner and I'm the same for him the challenge for the opponents will be different, regardless how they see us seperated. It's absolut horror to me to play a doubles match without/with less synergy. If there is none, it's absolute worthless to play with one of the best players on court if you lack understanding, communication and a good understanding in doubles to built up the game together. IMO this is often forgotten in doubles. It seems it is more fun to have a tight 3 set match. If you want to annoy me, pair me with a defensive player to get a 3 set even out game and I will do my best to get out of it quickly in a poor manner. 2 good players don't always make a strong unbeatable pair and 2 weaker players can be a strong double. IMO there is not transition in disciplines, but some people I came across believe this. Partner me with the strongest XD male player at my club and we won't make a good double. We don't fit and this must be not ignored it must be accepted. If I need to play with a partner who don't fit to me or I think we wouldn't complement well I don't care if he is good in his playing style or a different discipline. I prefer to play a decent match and performance. If we win, great! If we loose, but had a good synergy it's also great! If I struggle through a 3 set game with non complement partner, regardless if won or lost, I need a drug treatment. This sounds poor by me, but what I enjoy and what others enjoy can be different. Honestly, I also think that some people are also annoyed by my style of play, if they need to partner me, but I accept it. This is absolute normal in doubles. Some people have a wider tolerance and can adjust more easy than others. It's also interesting that fun means to people here something different. For me the best doubles player is the player who can play with a wide window of different players and can adjust easily to complement.
Wow, very interesting perspective. Thanks for sharing it! I'm of the exact opposite mindset, and I think it's a good idea to lay that out. In most clubs I play in, partners are switched all the time; you could easily have 10 different partners on a single day. The only time when the worst player would not partner the strongest is when a pair (either level or mixed doubles) is training for an important upcoming match or tournament - but then they will typically seek out pairs stronger than them. That being said, there is a lot of fluctuation at these clubs; on each day you have like 20-30 players out of a pool of 50-80. For me, an important part of the strategy - and joy - of doubles is adapting to your partner and opponents. I'd say I'm best in an attacking game, and prefer a really aggressive play style. But when I'm partnered with a turtling player or someone who's very good at the flat game, my task is to change my playing style to fit that. When playing with a new partner, I oftentimes discover new interesting setups, tactics, and strategies. Of course, one can only adapt so much. When a player who absolutely loves defending all the time and letting the opponents tire themselves out plays with an all-out attacker, both have to change. Notably, this does not mean that the compromise needs to be worse for both. For instance, you can always lift to the defender's side (or even swap sides, look at any match of Eva Janssens and Max Weißkirchen for the extreme), and a backcourt attacker can cover the clear over the defender in exchange for the front middle area. The only partner I don't like is one that is unwilling to adapt and communicate. The worst are those with home-made rules totally contrary to what everyone else plays, and an absolute unwillingness to spell out those rules. Also, players who don't want any communication - not even at 11 or between games - are quite difficult for me to partner. In my experience, higher-level players are also much better at silently adapting to different game styles and communicating it.
At the club I play each player has a few partners who work and some favour specific partners. To me a partnership is important and I invest my time to work on the partnership. If you don't complement and understand well it's the first step to talk about that and make arrangements. I played a few years ago at a club who also do this system where you can get 5 partners per session and up to 15 different per week. What I discovered is following: If you play just this one game and not regular, how open are you to invest something? Most people will listen to your arrangements, but can't convert or are not serious willing to convert. I'm not angry about that and understand that it is difficult to adjust and with no motivation will you do? E.g. you are a MD front court player and don't have much experience to play with a lefty. Maybe one game per week, the rest are right handed players. It is different to make a lefty rear court player it easy and create chances for him, make him shine. It starts with your serve. When you are used 95% of your game to play a right hander. Will you able to adjust for this single moment? Is it worth to you for just one game? Is it worth to talk about or wasted effort? I experience at that club, that a lot people are annoyed about a delay in the game when we talked about arrangements as a pair. Time on court is short and a lot people are more interested in getting the most time and games out of the court instead of beeing open and interesting to hear. I tried often to use careful words to make arrangements, but most people seen it as a chattering to them or as a point of critics. I got often impression that they thought I'm creepy, so I started to shut up. I played frustrating games, nothing worked well, alot of missunderstandings. So this games where not fun to me. It was just a bridge game during waiting for a good one. If you have the enviroment to have alot of open people who are willing to invest, listen to your words and are open minded, it's the jackpot. I often never experienced that and if the communication fails, I stick with the people who are willing. Up to a degree it is possible to adjust to a partner but if I play with somebody who prefer to lift left right all the time and make the defence as his prefered scenario of the game I get a problem and does such a guy change something/ is he willing to change when he partner me? The motivation is quite low for him. @paulstewart64 had a great article about the thing I'm talking bout: http://badminton-coach.co.uk/820/se...utscore-your-opponent-to-win-the-game-part-3/ Over the years I never broke a racket in a clash anymore, had games where I can fully concentrate to work with a firm partner to play different opponents (which also involves adjustment), learned to communicate and experienced how great it is to play with somebody nearly blindfold and who is motivated to listen and treat me serious and also is not afraid to also raise critical points in terms of me, because we get really familiar and can also have a lot of fun off court. If I need to choose playing unsteady games or a fixed partner who I'm worth to invest and vice versa, I would choose the latter one.
You are certainly not strange. It would be my dreamscenario too to have a partner who creates chances for me and finishes the points I try to create for him. For more than 5 years (my complete badminton life) now I have never had the chance to even get a working pair for a single season. Always changing partners with the craziest playing styles! More often than not trying the heroball all the time instead of working together The few partners I like to play with because we fit ins style, when we practise for an upcoming tournament, even small adaptions are not taken into brain. If I tell them something it goes right out the other ear immediately... I dont know what level play one must reach to get more open partners. Its not the case until Bezirksliga so far -.- Your wishes are completely unrealistic in my club and also from what I saw would be hard to find in other clubs. If I would do it it would result in that I play on one court with the same players the whole night. It would actually be a great badminton night but our clubphilosophy is to change rotations so it mixes up, which I support! I hate when 4 players fill a court and dont leave for the whole night! So because we change constellation after every match, it is the only smart thing to mix the pairs evenly! Else everybody is bored! Of course that helps only to a certain extend. I guess im the better doubles player than you are then Seriously: At my level, I certainly do NOT want to adjust to bullshit (tactically) play! I stay with my aggressive attacking play no matter what my partners, who where not able to learn the simplest basics in 10-30 years of badminton, do. - the few times I actually tell them to please go to the front and be there BEFORE I hit from the back, which is superbasic, they either dont believe me OR even discuss with me that they must wait until they see what I did Well have fun with my partners!!
You are not alone. I've been playing for 6 years now and I think the perfect partner doesn't exist. Either my partners are too slow, don't know tactics good enough, are too error-prone or simply have a completely different style of play. It's enough to win a lot of games and come far in tournaments, but I feel my full potential in doubles is not reached yet that way, which makes me sad.
on the contrary i am always looking for opponents who are better than me, this acts as a good eye opener for me
I wasn't saying anything about the type of partner to choose, just that everyone tends to overestimate their ability, but actually what you think of yourself doesn't matter. It's all the arrangements on the court and "the hive mind." As for me, I also want a full-time partner I train and play with regularly. I even have a coach and a tight-knit club I play with daily and yet I can't find one either. I had one guy my friend/part-time coach wanted to bring together and train us both separate and together and he thought we could be a formidable team. In the short time we played together we realized my friends instincts were right and we did work well together. And then the guy moved away....such is life..... Right now my most common partner for competitions is my boyfriend which I thought would be a disaster but is working so far. I'm kinda against partnerships couples because so much can happen outside the game that would affect the game. I'd prefer my full-time "dream" partner to not be my BF (and anyway he doesn't train with me, we just play together at tournaments usually.) But I play and train mixed doubles so it would need to be a guy.
Actually its not just what can happen outside the court which can effect your game it can also be stuff that occur during a nerve wrecking game that can effect your relationship outside the court. Its good that you are already aware of it and hopefully you would find a better matched partner soon
