Correction: Pedersen, not Rasmussen There is an umpire and a service judge and both missed calling the shuttle bouncing off the floor? BWF should revise the role of the service judge to be an assistant umpire, much like in volleyball. + unsportsmanlike for Christina Pedersen to take the point when she knows full well she took it off the floor.
Petersen has never been known for good sportsmanship. I'm curious to see that particular scene, though....sometimes it's hard to tell, even for the player....
This one was not hard to tell for anyone on court. Fischer actually stopped playing for a second, looked confused, referee didn't stop the play, so he lifted and continued. The ball was clearly on the floor. Danish media has polls running, whether Petersen's action was OK or unsportsmanlike. And they got the question immediately by the journalists in the post game interview. However, expert commentators (former world champion btw) and the player herself stated the same thing: There are top-notch referees to judge the game. Sometimes they makes mistakes, but players have to accept their decisions. If they do, mistakes will even out in the long run. They added: We know this Polish player, and he would not have given us the point in the reverse situation, that's for sure. Finally they said: In fact they owed us 1 from the first game, where at the score 2-2 the Polish player hit the shuttle thin, but the referee miss it, and the shuttle land just outside the line. Polish players are warded the point, even though Fischer immediately make the referee aware of the mistake. Polish player turns around and lift his hand in the air, claiming the point. Even though I personally feel it's not the best behaviour, I have to admit that the players seem to have a point. We saw the same happen to JOJ in the Thomas Cup, where his opponent so clearly hit the ball, but ref misses it, and the opponent doesn't react to JOJ's appeal for him to be honest. That was, btw, just after the Thomas Cup match where Axelsen actually turned to the referee to convince him to allow his opponent to have his court wiped (referee said no you must play, but Axelsen then approached and told the referee that it was OK, because the opponent's floor needed to be wiped). The same expert commentator then said he thought it was very sportsmanslike by Axelsen, because most players would never give their opponents any kind of advantange when the referee made mistakes. And Jorgensens match afterwards then proved the point. Where should you draw the line? If you let a ball go, and line ref says out, but you think it's in, should you say so? Are there any players doing that?
And that's an universally known fact? Or did you just write that based on your own personal opinion? In today's match, it was mr. Adcock that pulled the moves on Petersen, by making himself not-ready to receive, at the same second Petersen was about to serve. On several occasions, but especially at a very critical moment where the Danes had just won a series of points. That was not looking too good in the "sportsmanship department". But it's a part of the game, and all players know this.
Makes me think of volleyball where it's almost the norm that no player admits to the ball touching their body unless it's so obvious as to be deflected or bouncing off the floor first. It's usually left to the opponent(s) to dispute it if the referee didn't see it and then for the referee to refer to Hawk-Eye video challenge system to arbitrate. Sportsmanship or not, the problem is it's not against the rules not to own up to having touched the ball or knowing it hit the floor first. To be frank, I don't think it's a good idea to depend on individual player's sportsmanship for such situations, kind of arbitrary, apart from situations where the players themselves may not be aware of it in the heat of battle. That's where umpire's impartiality and technology come in to minimise human errors whether intentional or not. I mean it's easier for a player to be sportsmanlike when he/she is well in the lead or under no threat of losing, but at crucial moments, match points ? I suppose most players would not know how to react straightaway or hesitated long enough for the umpire/referee to do something or simply let it be (while perhaps struggling inside what should've been done). I'm not giving excuses for their indiscretion or lack of sportsmanship, not at all, but just being realistic. Remember Maradona's "Hand of God" goal - his actual words were "a little with the head of Maradona and a little with the hand of God" ? It'll be ideal if Olympism is upheld by every athlete but I can't help thinking in reality for the great majority of athletes, if not all, winning is everything, or even the only thing. That's why until today, doping is still a widespread issue, sadly speaking.
Well, that's what professional sport is about, all about winning, nobody cares much about the loser except to pay lip service, their die-hard fans aside. I'm not the least bit surprised if practically every professional athlete's unspoken motto is "Do anything but don't get caught" and at the same time projecting the kind of image the sponsor pays good money for.
According to BWF Regulation: 4.1.1 During any match or at any time while within the precincts of the site of an BWF sanctioned tournament, not conducting oneself in an honourable and sportsmanlike manner. Even if it wasn't explicitly stated, I consider Pedersen's action unsportsmanlike. Similar to if the shuttle hits the body then the racket and the player knows it but continues and takes the point because ref didn't see or call it. I think as badminton players we have seen players who are unsportsmanlike (e.g. who swears at every (frequent!) mistake, or who doesn't play fair (consistently calling shots out when they were inside or on the line). You don't need a ref or police to be a gentleman and play with respect, pro or not.
I was literally shocked when I saw it. You can clearly see that all 4 player on court saw the shuttle hit the floor. They all stopped for a second. And for me bending the rules is one thing (e.g. racket head position on serve) but what Christina had done was really uncool. Before that I really liked to watch Fischer / Pedersen - especially because of the inner fire of Joachim. He always seemed to be a driven charakter, very intense but also very fair. And when you watch the result, it was a crucial moment. As mentioned above, bending rules is one thing. Simply beeing dishonest is another. It's a matter of respect for each other imho.
Can you tell me at what score the incident happened? Found a video of the match on youtube, but don't want to watch all of it.
I do understand and fully sympathize with both your views. The problem is the rule is written in such a way that it's subjective and open to interpretation, therefore making implementation somewhat difficult. Unless the incident is so clear cut as to incur an outcry or public wrath, the tournament officials and IOC are unlikely to step in. As it is, they can only leave it to the umpire to do his duty to the best of his ability, trusting his/her professionalism and impartiality. Unfortunately in this case, the umpire failed to notice the fault, so no infraction, and didn't overrule the call but allowed the game to proceed which by then it's too late to reverse it even if it's pointed out to the tournament referee moments or minutes later. (Replay the set or match starting from when the mistake occurred ? Impossible). Technically speaking, it's not a case of bending the rules but more of oversight, a weakness or shortcoming or limitation of the system which hopefully can be properly addressed in the near future, the sooner the better. Personally, I'd prefer a technological solution in order to avoid unnecessary dispute or controversy. As an aside, the service above the waistline fault, a rule which presumably has nothing to do with sportsmanship and not so clear-cut but subject to the individual assessment of the particular service judge on duty, is still with us and remains an issue that in a matter of time may raise a hue and cry if, say, a gold medal match at a critical juncture is decided by such a service fault. Luckily, service short can now be challenged by appealing to IRS (Hawk-Eye).
It's absolutely shocking to see. Disgraveful behaviour from the Danes. Little tactical things (like taking ages on the serve, shuttle change games etc) are one thing - still showing that youre too bad a player to win fairly, imop - but this is blatant dishonesty, almost to the same level as doping. Just because the incredibly bad officials didnt notice, does it mean it didnt happen? No. God damn, thats just appalling to see. Lost all respect for that player. Fischer, I'll give zhe benefit of the doubt, but Pedersen? I wish she bombs out of both events and never wins a professional match again.
Justin wrote: "Technically speaking, it's not a case of bending the rules but more of oversight, a weakness or shortcoming or limitation of the system which hopefully can be properly addressed in the near future, the sooner the better. Personally, I'd prefer a technological solution in order to avoid unnecessary dispute or controversy." The solution is not another expensive complicated technical solution. Even if it was, it would only be available at the Superseries level. 99% of tournament and 100% of rec play is without Hawkeye. What is needed is honest sportsmanship. Period. It isn't asking for too much. As for the service rule, my suggestion has been and remains (until I see a better solution) that a fixed height limit be imposed (not a relative height of lowest rib, lol) with the service judge on an adjustable chair (regular office chair) with their eyes at that precise height. A mark on the post or net indicating that height would make it is easy to see where that height is. Or even an movable stand with a horizontal stick (like aiming a rifle) so the service judge can line up the server. So if the bird is above the eye-stick plane, it's too high. The players could also practice serving with an exact height limitation so it's easy for them too. I have trouble understanding why BWF is so slow to fix this major problem. j4ckie, my last response to you was banned, so I will keep it polite. No need to blow things out of proportion. That particular play by Pedersen was unsportsmanlike, you first went on to call her character into question, and now are venomous as if she somehow wronged you. What is helpful in this forum (and life) is thoughtful sober reflection rather than knee-jerk comments.
It's not knee-jerk, I've had a low opinion of her on-court behaviour for years. And blatantly unfair behaviour like that may well paint my favorite sport in a bad light, if someone chooses to televise this, just like the Issara incident or the 2012 match fixing, if to a much lesser extent. And if someone in a public position reflects badly on my sport, I reserve the right to dislike them and have the hope that they disappear from that position of influence. A similar case would be a high-ranking member of a company being involved in illegal or immoral avtivities - that would/could cause bad press for the company and be valid reason for employees to dislike that particular person for the harm they've done (or could do) to their own company.
Indeed an inspired game by the Pols to beat Xu/Ma. Brilliant coaching too! (Off topic, looking forward to XD Monster Jordan & little Susanto vs Tontowi AHHHHHHmad and Liliana Nat-on my court!-sir
If I am ref, and a player states that the opponent touched the bird (and I didn't see it), I would turn to the other player and ask. If they say, "yes, I touched it," then go with that and correct the call. If they say no, then the initial call stands. If the opposing player lied, then the onus is on them. I don't expect every ref to see everything, esp given the speed at high levels. But in this case, the ump didn't listen to the Polish case for justice. Any refs out there?
I'm afraid, in reality it is asking a bit too much. Can any society in the world depend on their citizen's honesty not to break the laws? That'w why we have law enforcement and due process of law otherwise I can't imagine how many innocent people will suffer, and the result will be a breakdown of the social fabric leading to social unrest. It is a sad state of affairs that we trust technology more than humans and unless and until we have Utopia (perhaps not in this world), we just have to continue striving toward a better, nobler society, a fairer, more equal and just world (in the distant future?). I'm sounding more optimistic than I'd like to, actually in my head I'm pessimistic but at heart I remain an optimist, or else, might as well give up on humanity.
