Chinese Badminton

Discussion in 'China Professional Players' started by Justin L, Aug 31, 2013.

  1. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    What a surprise. Fu Haifeng, yes I'm certain but Cai Yun who will turn 36 by then, I'm taken aback. Is this supposed to be welcome news? I'm not so sure, if CBA still has to call upon the services of these two old stalwarts, it only confirms what a sad state of affairs CHN MD is in.

    Hey, CB/HW, LXL/QZH, Lu Kai, Li Junhui/Liu Yuchen, Liu Cheng/Kang Jun, etc - quick, buck up before the Rio Olympic cycle begins next year.
     
  2. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Don't worry - there is always Li Gen to fall back on
     
  3. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    Usually, after Asian Games in each Olympic cycle, it will be clear which Chinese players/pairs will enter the Olympic qualification, which begins in early May next year.

    But for this cycle, the field is still wide open.
     
  4. Devendra

    Devendra Regular Member

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    I don't think it is.

    MS- Lin Dan and Chen Long.

    WS- Li Xuerui, Wang Yihan and Wang Shixian. (2 of those 3 in that order of preference)

    XD- Zhang Nan and Zhao Yunlei, Xu Chen and Ma Jin.

    MD- This seems to be open.

    WD- Yu Yang and Wang Xiaoli, Tian Qing/Zhao Yunlei, Bao Yixin/Tang Jinhua in that order.
     
  5. Devendra

    Devendra Regular Member

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    Did you guys know that Li Gen, the son of Li Yongbo, is partnered with Zhang Nan for the Bitburger Open!!! Not only that he has already played a couple of other tournaments with Zhang Nan, all GPs/GPGs. He doesn't seem to deserve Zhang Nan of course, seems like LYB is using CHN National resources to bring his son up.

    Also, Bitburger Open GPG has a full Chinese junior contingent. Would be interesting to watch.
     
  6. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    I've just watch the replay of WYH vs WSX http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vz5cGVU1a8

    It's obvious to me WYH is determined to beat WSX and LXR at the Den Open PSS as far as possible in her bid to overtake both of them in world ranking to consolidate her qualification for the Rio '16 Olympics. Since it's harder for her to surpass LXR for the time being, at least she'll work to climb above WSX asap; otherwise come the next qualifying cycle starting in May next year, CBA will again be in an awkward position, perhaps hard put, to justify replacing WSX with WYH even if the latter's track record against the foreign players is clearly better, once again a painful decision to make inflicting another blow on WSX the second time round.

    For sure, the internal rivalry between the three ladies will inevitably intensify going into the Rio Olympic cycle, esp between WSX and WYH. Needless to say, WSX is fully aware of her situation which may be a bit shaky if not precarious when we look beyond their world ranking as it doesn't necessarily reflect their respective strengths, whatever she will definitely do her utmost to prevent history repeating itself.
     
  7. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    For WYH, her no. 1 task from now till summer of 2016 is not to aggravate her existing injuries or to sustain new ones.

    For LXR, her goal is to stay low.

    For WSX, she can only hope that either WYH or LXR sustains a major injury. Sad, but true.

    I was hoping Sun Yu or Han Li can make it to Rio 2016, but that seems pretty unlikely now.
     
    #187 pcll99, Oct 20, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2014
  8. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    That's not what WSX hoped for and she shouldn't, I'm very sure. The most sensible and practicable things for her to do to strengthen her case are

    1) to work on her game, specifically acquire a decent smash to complete her arsenal;

    2) beat the foreign players consistently, at the very least maintain a remarkable record that is not far from ideal as compared with WYH if not LXR;

    3) do her best to keep her WR#2 ranking in the lead-up to the Rio Olympics.

    Doing all of the above will go a long way to maximise her chances of being selected, at worse, should she drop to WR3 she would still be first in line to take over either one of the two frontrunners in the event of unforeseen circumstances.

    Han Li, realistically speaking, you can rule her out as her performance up till now leaves much to be desired.

    Sun Yu, unless she can do another Li Xuerui in a fairytale run soon all the way to the end of the Rio Olympic qualification cycle to pose CBA an irresistible proposition, for the time being can only look forward to Tokyo 2020.

    Liu Xin's position is presently not much better than Sun Yu's or Han Li's, and I don't quite see her as the one who might spring a big surprise going by her recent so-so, admittedly not sparkling, performance.

    Dare I dream of the child prodigy He Bingjiao, the 17-yr-old YOG'14 WS Champion, doing the near impossible ?! Alas, I'm afraid, as she is a CHN junior up-and-comer, it's usually the case, practically standard policy, that she'll be given little chance to compete regularly in the senior international circuit, so how is she going to leapfrog any of her well-established and illustrious seniors?
     
  9. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    yes, you are right. Sorry, I didn't mean that's what WSX would hope for.
     
  10. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Don't worry,I know that's not what you meant nor was I implying that you did.

    WSX's Rio Olympic prospect is not that bleak but I fear the new quota policy of max 2 per nation may well deny her and break her heart once more, looks like her fate will be decided by unforeseen circumstances one way or the other (as you suggested perhaps).
     
  11. latecomer

    latecomer Regular Member

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    Time will tell who is going to the 2016 Olympic, one can plan but life will throw you a curve. We will have a clearer picture in the latter part of 2015. Ebola may shut down the 16 O'game. WS single is the least worry for LYB at this moment, MD is. The new pair will be staying and ZN will not play XD. LYB may pair XC with ZYL and finds MJ a new partner. Or MJ will play WD only.
     
  12. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    I think if Xu Chen is going to Rio, he'll stick with Ma Jin, so ZYL will have to find a new partner assuming ZN is required to pair up with Fu HF to play MD only. I doubt CBA would consider letting ZN do double duty in XD and MD, but for a lady to play both XD and WD, yes.

    Yeah, never rule out unforeseen circumstances beyond anyone's control - ebola not contained,derailing Rio'16 , Fukushima meltdown going out of control, worse than expected, affecting Tokyo Olympics - hope, pray not.
     
  13. RedShuttle

    RedShuttle Regular Member

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    The key to the current shuffling is the performance of Huang YaQiong / Lu Kai. This pair is currently the most promising XD pair behind the big two. If they can become an elite pair, then ZYL/ZN can be disbanded to dedicate themselves to ZYL/WXL and ZN/FHF combos.

    ZYL is getting up there in age. ZN can't afford less than 100% effort if he wants to be successful at MD. ZYL and ZN should not play two disciplines and perform at a level below their full potential, especially ZN.


    So if HYQ/LK can capably fill the role of 2nd XD pair, it would be a huge strategic boost to the Chinese team in opening up the opportunities to improve WD and MD.
     
  14. RedShuttle

    RedShuttle Regular Member

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    A Scandal That Wasn't

    Recently, a “scandal” broke out in Chinese Ping Pong Team.

    During an interview, the head coach for the men’s team said that before the Asian Games MS Final, he told one of his players “proud to lose” to his teammate. Taking the interview in its entirety, you would know that the coach was playing psychologist so that even if this player did lose, he would not be too down on himself for the upcoming team competition. But then, the fact twisting media and idiotic fans were out in full force, claiming it as an admission of match manipulation.

    So the other facts came out, including: since 2004, the Ping Pong team has officially stopped the practice of artificially advancing one player for a better match-up in next round or whatever other reason; and, spots in major competitions are up for grabs via open qualifying competitions.

    Actually, it is commonly known that the Ping Pong team still manipulates matches in one way: sending make-shift mixed doubles pairs to competitions, so they can legitimately lose and not to sweep the gold medals.

    The situation in badminton is different. But we can all hold hope that fully open competition will eventually come to the badminton team. LYB already said that he is not going to “pay much attention” to events other than the Olympics and the Cups. With only two spots available for the Rio Olympics, we don't want to see another Li XueRui / Wang ShiXian controversy.
     
  15. tbgoh288

    tbgoh288 Regular Member

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    In post # 10468 in page 616 of the thread on LCW a member dragged Chinese badminton into an issue not of its making by making the disparaging remark that “CHN MS has it too easy when LCW plays because he gets rid of all the non CHN MS and CHN MS only has to rote train for him.

    Bored by the discussions on pharmacology and Pharmacokinetics which are both alien to me I decided to do a little investigation and came up with the list, given below, of the players LCW and the eventual Chinese champions played against in all the WCs, OG and AGs since 2009 for everyone’s perusal. The players’ names are listed according to the sequence they were defeated by LCW and the eventual champs.

    I find that there is not even an iota of truth in that remark.

    I choose to post what I found in this thread to avoid interrupting the discussions currently going on in the thread on LCW and to save anyone who may want to rebut similar blatant remarks in the future the trouble of doing any investigation.

    WC 2009

    LCW : Dieter Domke, Ola Fagemi, Nguyen Tien Minh , lost to Sony Kunchoro

    LD : M Zilberman, Tanongsak D Palyama, P Gade, Sonny, beat Chen Jin in finals

    WC 2010

    LCW : K Gordon, Muhamad Hafiz, R Ouseph, Lost to Taufik Hidayat

    Chen Jin : V Lang, K Navickas, Aston Chen Y Zhao, Hsueh H Y, P Gade, beat Taufik in finals

    AG 2010

    LCW : C Y Kit, Boonsak, C Jin , lost to LD in finals
    LD : Hu Yun, Nguyen T M, Park S H, beat LCW in finals.

    WC 2011

    LCW : Tanongsak, V Lang, Park S H, K Gordon, C Jin, lost to LD in finals.

    LD : K Navickas, Scott Evans, Lee Hyun II, S Sasaki, P Gade, beat LCW in finals.

    OG 2012

    LCW : V Lang, S Santoso, K Parupali, C Long, Lost to LD in finals.

    LD : Scott Evans, Taufik, S Sasaki, L Hyun II, beat LCW in finals.


    WC 2013

    LCW : Scott Evans, D Rambuka, W Zengmin, T Sugiarto, D Penyu, lost to LD in finals.

    LD : S Pongnairat, E Pang, C W Feng, C Long, Nguyen T M, beat LCW in finals.

    WC 2014

    LCW : L D Kuen, D Domke, S Evans, Wang Z M, V Axelsen, lost to C Long in finals.

    CL : L Wraber. M Zwieber, S Kanth, Son W H, T Sugiarto beat LCW in finals.

    AG 2014

    LCW: Zeeshan U, Kashyap P, Nguyen TM, lost to LD

    LD : L D Kuen, Hu Yun, K Tago, beat LCW, beat C Long in finals.
     
  16. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Thanks a lot, tbgoh288, of course you're right.

    That member is forever singing the same old tune about CHN MS getting 'assist', a term used in team sport where one player sets up an opportunity for another player on their team to score a point/goal such as in basketball, hockey,soccer,baseball, and insisting that rote-training/learning is the CHN MS way of beating LCW. Some of us have previously already rebutted that line of argument and distortion of facts, that's why I couldn't be bothered to response to it the other day.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assist

    (General Sporting Terms) sport
    a pass or other action by a player which enables another player to score a goal - from Collins English Dictionary

    (in sports)
    a play or pass helping a teammate to score or make a putout. - from Random House Webster's College Dictionary
     
  17. Woffle

    Woffle Regular Member

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    Someone brought up TYT/HYQ combination being split in the CHN SSP thread

    I think the main issue for CHN WD these days is not a lack of good players. Collectively they are very strong, winning 9/10 SS/SSP title and WC this year. It is their inability to come up with a dominant partnership like YY/WXL were from 2011-2. For a while BYX/TJH looked to be in that role but tbh now it looks like a flop, with their inability to solve JPN WD.

    Personally I will hope that in Rio they will send one veteran pair and one younger pair, but we will see I guess.
     
  18. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    ^ The CBA coaches and think-tank still have until April 2015 to finalize on potential top 3 or 4 WD combinations. Actually, they still have an embarrassment of riches in this department. It would be good however, to give encouragement to the younger brigade apart from the veterans.

    IMO, what they don't want to do is play musical chairs at high speed and non-stop. This may result in confusion and loss of confidence in the players, of their abilities or their understanding about what exactly is required of them. Besides, they need to be careful not to overstretch them during this period, and risk any injury. They will need their players to be in top form and dependable physical condition right through the OG qualification period, if they want their pairs to top the rankings.

    I hope they get it right.
     
  19. RedShuttle

    RedShuttle Regular Member

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    Both CY and LXL are openly questioning the training, CY on the overly long training sessions and LXL on training to be complete players while losing their own forte.

    I think that the chance is better than even that Zhang Jun will be replaced as MD head coach.

    On the WD front, it hinges on how XD pairs are set up. Huang YaQiong's stock is dropping. She looks more and more like a lesser, rather stronger version of MJ. The big decision is whether it is time to put Chen QingChen on the front line and risk burning her out early.
     
  20. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    For once, I urge CBA to let the two 17-year-olds, Zeng Siwei and Chen Qingchen whom I dubbed Wonder Kids, shine on the world stage early. They can still try to win the WJC XD title next year if they qualify, then allow them to concentrate on the XD at the senior international level.

    I strongly feel that CHN juniors who are brilliant, truly exceptional, should not be deprived and waste their precious youth by keeping them waiting in the wings for their established seniors to make way years later. Beside Zeng Siwei and Chen Qingchen in XD, please also include WS He Bingjiao, MS Shi Yuqi and MS Lin Guipu, MD Li Junhui, MD Liu Yuchen and MD Huang Kaixiang, if possible.

    In WS, both WYH and WSX have shown their vulnerabilities and unreliability while LXR has suffered two massive meltdowns in the WC once a year though she is still the most consistent top performer at other times against the ROW. Having the prodigious talent He BJ and the rising star Sun Yu to reinforce the WS squad can do much good and not harm, I believe. But we must give these two promising youngsters a lot of international exposure to gain the much-needed experience and mature quicker.

    In MS, CHN cannot be too reliant on the 'Old Guard' Lin Dan alone to deliver the goods whenever Chen Long cracks unexpectedly once too often. Not long ago, CHN used to have the powerful Trio, Lin Dan, Bao Chunlai and Chen Jin to conquer the team championships as well as most of the individual crowns. Sadly, Wang Zhengming, Tian Houwei and Xue Song are taking a bit too long to consistently challenge the top ranks, allowing the two aforementioned youngsters, SYQ and LGP, in the mix might jolt the former three mentioned into intensive action, create a sense of urgency and possibly speed up their progress, hopefully.

    In MD, the need is even more pressing. While Zhang Nan and Fu Haifeng are showing great promise as a pair, they are still not up there with the very best yet. Cai Yun has expressed he wants to partner young Lu Kai for a go at the Rio Olympics but their progress still falls short of expectation as of now. At the just-concluded CHN Open PSS, the WJC pair of Li JH/Liu YC actually stunned the former INA WC, Ahsan/Setiawan, in two convincing straight sets. However, these two kids are raw diamonds and will need quite a bit of polishing to bring out their highest luster which can only be achieved by competing regularly in top level tournaments.

    Even for CHN WD, where their aura of invincibility seems entrenched for quite a while, it has been partially shaken of late. Bao Yixin/ Tang Jinhua's recent amazing run of tournament triumphs suddenly come to a halt, their performance turns lackluster for months; at the Incheon Asian Games, not a single CHN WD pair advanced to the semifinals. The malaise across the board in all disciplines is more widespread than we thought.

    As it is, the rest of the world has been closing the gap with CHN badminton in all categories, some more so than the others, but, overall, a worrying sign that seems to be exacerbating. There is presently no threat of CHN dominance as in table tennis, not in the near future, as such the rest of the world has no cause for alarm. Rather address the slide in CHN badminton before it declines further to a point where the damage would take a long time to repair. CBA, the wake-up call has already sounded with the Thomas Cup debacle and the Asian Games fiasco, just to mentioned two utter failures. It is high time to take drastic measures, tarry not.
     

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