Wrongful Resignation?

I subscribe to the philosophy of: "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Einstein was a pretty smart guy...

It would be a lot simpler if life was black and white as Tactim states, unfortunately, we live in a world of greys. The philosophy of "winners never quit and quitters never win" is easier to live by when you're in your prime, less so as you get older.

 

I think most of us here already agree that we should recognize the limitations of our bodies and avoid playing beyond it, otherwise we're at risk of incurring minor or even heavens forbid, major injuries. Even in tournament matches, we're still really playing at a recreational albeit competitive level, but not professional.

It is just a game, fellas. Our pride may be on the line. But we can always keep our bodies intact and come back to fight another battle another time. We have to keep this in mind.

However, having said that, I can understand that we should not quit a game just because we're slightly tired. Once we've accepted to play a game, we have a responsibility to play to the end, unless we were injured or overly fatigued. At that point that becomes our prerogative to choose to continue or stop playing. No one can force us to keep playing then.

 

it's never black and white, you're right...
but in competitive sports, and you're dead tired and down by 5 points in the finals, you dig deep and tell yourself "alright, suck it up, I can do this".
Because the alternative is "good game, I'm tired, going home to take a nap"... and that by definition, is a pansy.

 

I think most of us have some semblance of pride preventing us from doing that.

 

Our discussion was going in different directions......

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I should have reminded everyone that our discussion was going in different directions;

(1) Raymond was asking: Was I wrong to stop my daughter's match?

(2) Matt was telling us: Tiredness doesn't lead to injuries.

Some BCers (including myself) replied to (1), some to (2), and some to both (1) and (2).

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There is a difference between resigning because you're scared of losing once you're tired and resigning because your body can't go on.

You'll see very often that if you're winning, you don't even notice being tired. And sometimes, when you push yourself, you don't notice that pain either. It doesn't mean the pain is not there, just you don't feel it.

The question you must ask yourself is if you had an overwhelming lead and this same sense of being tired, would you still continue to play? Only then can you decide whether to quit when you're tired.


If I cannot give my opponent, or myself, a good game, I will not hesitate to stop. Who wants to play a game for fun when all you do is crush your friend? Not I. In a tournament, I am obliged to be in the best shape I am to give a good game. If I fail to do so, then I must put up my best effort until the game is over, since we're playing for something, honour or points, not just fun.

 

It was Raymond who stopped the match, not his daughter (the player)

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From what we have read (from Post #1 to here), I believe that Raymond's daughter wanted to continue to finish her match.

It was Raymond who stopped the match, not his daughter (the player).
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Raymond:

I think I would agree, we were on different wavelengths! I seem to recall at the start of my first post, saying I would not go into whether this was right or wrong at all, but was interested to see why people thought that tiredness led to injury - unfortunately, thats not what this topic was about - my fault!

I firstly apologise for the rudeness of my comments. I did not know (I must have misread - I apologise) that it was evident that your daughter looked fatigued - I also mentioned that its usually obvious to see if someone should stop playing or not, and having not been there, its difficult to judge. As I have said before, if you felt there may be concerns for her safety, then stopping the match was absolutely the right thing to do. To clear this up: if an injury is at risk, I do not see it as disrespectful to stop the match short. Indeed, that sounds sensible. And the comments from the other parents were very strange.

What then occurred to me, was whether there actually WAS a reason for tiredness to increase the likelihood of injuries. I was somewhat sceptical as to whether injury is more likely from tiredness: and I meant that only in terms of facts, not opinions. I would have expected that a tired player, probably chooses to push themselves harder, and that pushing results in the injuries (not the tiredness). I wondered why people thought that tiredness itself cause the problems.

I think you have found the answer to those questions with some of your links above. A simple enough job to find them (something I should have done in my own time, but I was in this for the discussion).

Although I respect Zhao tremendously, I am inclined not to trust "experience", even given his wealth of it, because I know that there are so many variables involved, and its usually hard to separate the true cause and effect. However, the other links provide a physiological reason for why more injuries occur. It certainly makes sense that as your body becomes more fatigued, they start to respond differently to the mental stimulus (the neuronal activity that activates the use of those muscles - this is unchanged as I understand it), than when they were fresh. This, potentially leading to less coordinated movements, and thus injuries are more likely. This sort of result, is easy for me to accept as tiredness being a cause of injury.

I think visor summed up quite nicely the point I was trying and obviously failing to make.

Cheers

Matt

 

I just played two games where I was too tired to put up a good fight.

Against the first opponent, I was worn down completely by the second set. The first set was close, but the second set was full of mistakes and me being tired. So I lost that.

The next opponent was even better, and I was even more tired from the back to back games. I found I couldn't put up any resistance at all. My legs were stiff and glued to the ground. My reaction was terrible. And my returns missed more than half the time.

Basically I played a game where I mis-hit the majority of the serves. Meaning a best of three lasted maybe five minutes. Probably less. In that situation, is there even a point in going on? I'm going to lose, he knows it and I know it. I'm tired, and he knows it already from before. And neither of us have fun or a good game when one player can't see or hit.

At this point, tiredness is affecting my game, and I thought about this thread. Shouldn't I just have forfeited? I was all over the place, falling over, tripping, and pushing myself to go on, but to no success. There's a physical limit to the body, and I don't know whether I reached it then. Maybe I should have forfeited.


As a side note, I haven't gotten good sleep in a week, and I've been practicing or playing for four days straight.

 

I think it's good for us to push ourselves to "playing till exhaustion" at least once in our lives so that we know where our ultimate limits are. Then we can draw from that watershed experience and know our limits and know when to draw the line.

"I know my limit, do you know yours?"

 

but the greatest thing about the human body is the more your push the limit, the greater the limit becomes. It's why when you do training, you always train to the point to complete exhaustion, then try to do one more set after that.

 

What if you're so tired you can't do one more set? Like, completely unable to play?

And why are you up so late? o:

 

Train to the point to complete exhaustion

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IMHO, training to complete exhaustion may be good for the training for stamina/endurance; but for the training for speed/power, it is best performed before the body is tired.
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Yeah....Im a human biology major and theres something you should know about tendons and ligaments.
The human knee has many attachments for both tendons, and ligaments (just look at how much your knee can bend and twist)
Tendons- connect muscles to bone
Ligaments- connect bone to bone

To ''push yourself to the limit, the greater the limit becomes" is not true for tendons and ligaments. I don't care what sport it is, how physically fit or built someone is (be it cardiovascular capability or muscle mass), tendons and ligaments do not increase/decrease in size/strength.

In the case of the child, I feel as though the father made the right choice, a torn ligament or tendon is something that could be very detrimental to a child because they are not fully developed yet.

Tendons and ligaments do not readily heal because they do not have adequate blood supply. There is no way these can be trained. These are our physical limitations, end of story
Technique is key, poor technique will damage these 'untrainable' ligaments/tendons.
Training will not change your tendons/ligaments

 

He could also change it to trollface.

 

All I know is hard work pays off, and quitting doesn't.
if that makes me a troll, then call me drill-sergeant troll-face. (only fair since I'm allowed to call quitters pansies)