Medical timeout and gamesmanship

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by Justin L, Apr 14, 2017.

  1. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Oh dear,Jia Yifan is injured. Sudirman Cup a-calling, better not.
     
  2. nilesh123

    nilesh123 Regular Member

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    Oh ****, what happened?
     
  3. Yoji

    Yoji Regular Member

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    Didnt jia yifan also faked injuries last week and also chen qingchen also faked it against malaysia pairs. so they had 2 medical timeouts before beating the unlucky pairs. must be the most shameful thing i see in stadium. of course they got what they deserved losing 2points against the japanese last week and the koreans today.
     
  4. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    How do you know they faked injuries when the tournament doctors, umpires and referees don't ? If medical timeouts helped them to win the last time,or anybody for that matter, why not this time ? Poetic justice ? So only if their injuries are serious enough as to incapacitate them will you be satisfied ? Don't forget, their timeouts also benefited their opponents.

    Sometimes, at that moment, the player's instantly feels a twitch and reacted in pain but nobody's is sure the extent of the injury until some time later. Most players as a result carry minor ailments or nagging minor injuries that require a period of rest to recover fully but due to tournament schedule, they are unable to do so yet. Don't be so mean and think the worse of them; it can happen to every player. Give them the benefit of the doubt. Are the matches of such import, the stakes are so high, a matter of life and death that some players lose their moral compass ? I don't think so.
     
  5. GingerCorslette

    GingerCorslette Regular Member

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    What happened?

    How do you know they faked it? Actually, CQC did turn an ankle at the MO...
     
  6. Yoji

    Yoji Regular Member

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    ask themselves if they fake it or not. even god knows it, they have done it too often thats the reason why. never did see matsutomo or takahashi did that. i mean come one, you are world class player. do you need to do that?
     
  7. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    You already said they are world class players, worldbeaters even though only 19 years old, why would they stoop to that ? I have trust in their integrity and pride for their beloved sport and their self-belief of their abilities to resort to any underhanded means. What for, to win a QF or SF of a SS/PSS when they are already owners of some prestigious titles, such as the SSF, and have the capability to win more going forward ?

    I should think that by imputing such unpalatable behaviour on the two young gifted aspirants who have so much going for them actually reflects more on you than on them. Don't ask them , ask yourself( and don't bring in god). Besides, based on your grouse, your opponent has a medical timeout, as a result you lose, then what good are you ?
     
    #7 Justin L, Apr 14, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2017
  8. Yoji

    Yoji Regular Member

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  9. Yoji

    Yoji Regular Member

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    agree or not agree, its just a game
     
  10. Yoji

    Yoji Regular Member

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    They were just so damn good like YuYang, an olympic champion in 2008 to scoop so low in 2012 LondonOlympic fiasco as a no 1 seed. so dark and evil benefit of my ass. They will do anything to win any tournament. Yeah its not their fault, they just do according to the coaches wish.
     
  11. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Just now, you said it's just a game. Then now this ? London Olympic fiasco 2012, there were 8 of them in WD, 2 CHN, 4 KOR, 2 INA...Hey, wait a minute, you're obviously trolling. Damn.
     
  12. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Quite a lot of times, Chinese get accused of faking injuries. Well, one top Chinese player collapsed on court during one tournament and needed to be resuscitated. Lucky he survived. He had some sort of heart attack. I don't think you can fake that. It's no urban myth because I happen to know that person.

    There was another time some years ago a Chinese player retired at the HK Open with an ankle injury. Just the same as you, suspicions were cast. I asked the medical team (because I knew them) what the injury was and if it could have been a fake. They said no (and the swelling can't be faked). I reported on the forum and guess what, some people said the doctor wasn't good. Funny right? Well, I hadn't mentioned it before but in fact for that time, three orthopaedic doctors were on duty with combined clinical experience of over 20years (that's a conservative estimate).

    So yeah, I guess you can see the point I am driving at.
     
  13. pjswift

    pjswift Regular Member

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    In your examples, of course they were real injuries. That does not mean there are no fake cases. In the examples mentioned by Yoji, it looks like 2 out of 2 instances of the same WD. What I don't understand is how the injured player got a full 5 min timeout and nothing s done for her injury. Does that mean it could be fake? I wouldn't know, only the player knows. But a timeout like that does not benefit the opponents if they are on a roll as it can result in a negative momentum shift. Maybe that s what Yoji s trying to suggest and rightly so.
     
  14. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Don't try to read Yoji's mind or second-guess what he's driving at. He's flabbergasted and utterly disappointed because both Chen Qingchen who was supposed to be injured last week went on to win it, and this week, it's Jia Yifan's turn to be 'injured' but 'recovered' to play on, only thing is this time they lost (phew). How he wished both CHN girls are really injured, if not, then they must lose, not win. Anybody can 'fake' injury as long as it's not CHN players.

    You're being disingenuous in your response, even glossing over his crass remarks in related posts, esp #523.
     
  15. Yoji

    Yoji Regular Member

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    I just want players to play fair and square. we are talking about chinese players, its funny they always take medical timeout when they are down in a game. and its not jiayifans turn, she also took medical timeout last week. in any case they will just stoop so low and do anything to win tournament, nothing will ever change that fact when they took medical timeout. always them and them who take it , even weaker opponents dont do that.
     
  16. Maurice MJC

    Maurice MJC Regular Member

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    Although I agree to some extent with you (it has been used as some kind of destabilizing tactics by many Chinese players, which is not unique to badminton, you see a lot of that in Tennis: Nishikori is criticized a lot for that), I think you have made your point clear in your multiple previous posts on this. Let's not further flood this thread with such inflammatory comments ;)
     
  17. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    I definitely agree with you. My examples shows how suspicion of fake turns out to be wrong. Do you remember how Saint Nehwal got her Olympic bronze? Her opponent from China suffered a torn anterior cruciate ligament. Our forum members from India wrote the Chinese player was faking injury trying to disturb the rhythm of the match.

    Really speaking, sometimes it is very difficult. Humans can suffer pain, but after a few minutes can still carry on. Since none of us are at ringside and the umpire is not medically qualified, and there are no diagnostic equipment on site, what do you do? Do you give a warning card for simulation?

    @pjswift, see how one track the mind the mind is? We need better statistical evidence. Yes, there are more medical timeouts but yet historically, more Chinese players get through to the later rounds. So by pure time on court, you are more likely to greater number of incidents by Chinese players. Whether this is proportionately greater than other countries, I don't know.

    However, what I do think is Yoji needs to present better statistical evidence to back up his/her blanket statement and the inference made on their character.
     
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  18. nokh88

    nokh88 Regular Member

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    Fake or otherwise, it is hard to tell unless the players themselves disclose it.

    Agree that because of the high representation of CHN, occurrence by them are higher.
    Nobody would question a player from say Germany or England if they claim they are injured.

    One good example comes to mind immediately is LD's case in his last SO. It was only of cold water and he concedes a walkover and it was against CJ.
    He could have played although he may not win. This would not give rise to suspicions of manipulation. I am just citing this as an example.
     
  19. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Walkover is a different issue and has the statistics to prove it (as done by badzine in the past. Sorry don't have the link).

    Mind you, there is a professional player from Malaysia (independent) who must have the record number of retirements. Given his history, I wonder why bother entering.

    The sooner there's more money in the game to support independent players with the removal of national association approval to enter tournaments, that would be a big step forward.
     
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  20. nokh88

    nokh88 Regular Member

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    Yes, walkover is slightly different. Walkovers could be late to the stadium or have to suddenly leave for home etc.

    What I am saying is using injuries or illness to his/her or association's advantage.
    Oh...Mr. Cheong, you are pushing me to use the dreaded word "cheating" which will certainly attract brickbats from CHN fans.

    Ah yes, the Malaysian player is Z..Z something. Can't remember. ;):D Hehe..
    Why participate in the first place?
     
    #20 nokh88, Apr 14, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2017

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