Lee Yong Dae's tumbling serve 2014

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by ant01, Dec 22, 2014.

Tags:
  1. ant01

    ant01 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2012
    Messages:
    653
    Likes Received:
    288
    Location:
    England
    Lee Yong Dae's new serve

    I was watching the final and semis for the super series final and LYD's serve now makes the shuttle spin in a way that it will be pointing almost vertically down when it crosses the net. Has anyone seen this before or know how it's done?

    Gill says that it looks like a legal serve with no double hit or striking feathers first. It doesn't really look like a slice either :confused: This is probably why MoBo were going crazy yesterday too :p

    It's around the 13:13 mark here.

    Edit: another example with replay here
     
    #1 ant01, Dec 22, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2014
  2. visor

    visor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    16,401
    Likes Received:
    2,001
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Having won the recently finished 2014 Dubai SS Finals, there were many (what I considered were unfounded) complaints about LYD's serve from his opponents in the SF and F games, namely Boe/Mo and Hong/Chai, regarding that he causes the shuttle to tumble seemingly uncontrollably as it crosses the net making it difficult to address.

    So [MENTION=13175]Oldhand[/MENTION] and [MENTION=32554]jyeung[/MENTION] got my interest with some promise of slow mo replays of his serve, and I went searching for a few from the side angle.

    Please watch them at normal speed and at 1/4 speed (setting button bottom right of the youtube player) to appreciate the hitting/pushing action.


    As mentioned, it doesn't look to be a hitting action per se, more like a fast pushing action with some top spin with supination. Contact point looks like around 8-10 o'clock area about 1-2 inches from the frame edge. Definitely the cork is struck first and there's one single motion, so within the rules for service. On contact, the height looks to be below the navel/lowest rib area (which is where the elbow tip is with the arm at side), but because of the pushing action, the shuttle doesn't leave the stringbed until maybe 1-2/10th of a second later when it would be above the lowest rib. Still

    In the SF, they were at 10:47, 14:42, 14:55, 58:53

    [video=youtube;TOxNOa-yZJ4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOxNOa-yZJ4[/video]


    In the F, they were at 37:17 and 1:03:09

    [video=youtube;aeHsK_n7qO0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeHsK_n7qO0[/video]
     
    #2 visor, Dec 25, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2014
  3. visor

    visor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    16,401
    Likes Received:
    2,001
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    -----------------------
     
  4. visor

    visor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    16,401
    Likes Received:
    2,001
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Still = still looks legal.
     
  5. DannyYan

    DannyYan Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Messages:
    409
    Likes Received:
    5
    Occupation:
    Human
    Location:
    Citizen of the world
    what's special? i did this always if i met those who likes to push/drive starting from my serve.
     
  6. vkokamthankar

    vkokamthankar Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Employed in a company
    Location:
    Pune, India
    What is Boe & Mogense complaining about ? Serve is legal.

    Had a careful look at video of Dae's serve. I do not think it is violating any rule and hence it is legal.

    Yes, bird is tumbling at a times too much, even causing it to fall short of service line. But it is meeting all the requirements of legal serve.

    What Boe & Mogensen complaining about ? Above Waist Serve or Double Contact ?
     
  7. phalanx

    phalanx Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2013
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Germany
    They were complained that it would be a double hit since "it was spinning so well"
     
  8. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,363
    Likes Received:
    19
    Location:
    UK
    It doesn't matter if LYD is double hitting as he is doing it with one stroke so it is legal. I suppose "caught and held on the racket then slung" rule is open to interpretation, and he is using a push serve and the shuttle does stay on his racket quite a while but applying this rule would be clutching at straws somewhat.

    With regards to LYD serve height. It's not even worth discussing, It's illegally high no doubt because it does not even come close, it is laughable. I could take any example but here is a Photo below as he is just about to contact.

    lydsv.PNG

    As you can see the highest point of the whole shuttle is just above the metlife banner. if you follow that banner along to lyd and then go just above it on the body you will see that it is stupid high. If the rule was the whole shuttle need to be below the sternum then I would say yes this serve is legal, but bottom rib. C'mon people your bottom rib ain't there it is fact.
     
  9. phalanx

    phalanx Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2013
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Germany
    Very many top player serving that high especially also Boe and Mogensen
     
  10. dbswansea

    dbswansea Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    2,525
    Likes Received:
    153
    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Swansea
    You could pull apart every pro's serve.
     
  11. Exert

    Exert Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2013
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    10
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Canada
    Can't remember who it was boe or mogensen but is it allowed to delay the serve that long?...
     
  12. visor

    visor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    16,401
    Likes Received:
    2,001
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Yeah, Lee's serve height is not any higher than most others.

    But Yoo, he's practically serving from chest high half the time... :eek:
     
  13. visor

    visor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    16,401
    Likes Received:
    2,001
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Boe. But others like Ma Jin and Pedersen take that prize.
     
  14. aiexrlder

    aiexrlder Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2012
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    UK
    so how is he hitting it then?...
     
  15. R20190

    R20190 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2004
    Messages:
    2,458
    Likes Received:
    414
    Occupation:
    Chartered Civil Engineer
    Location:
    London, UK
    I think there are two aspects to this topic, first is whether the serve he plays is legal, the second being how he achieves it.

    I do not believe his serve is illegal nor do the umpires and service judges so I'm not going to go into that. What's more interesting to me is this serve of his. We have discussed before in another thread (gollum's spin serve thread?) that LYD has a very good serve. We've known that he generally plays two serves, the backspin under cut push serve, which he favours most of the time. But also ocassionally the top spin serve. However we also knew he puts a little side spin to the stroke which makes it even more difficult for us enthusiasts to emulate.

    What I believe LYD has started to do is to enhance the amount of side spin he puts on the serve ocassionally which is what's causing it to spin erratically as it crosses the net. But he doesn't do it all the time. He got it wrong a few times too making it fall woefully short. The beauty with this serve I guess is that even if you serve too high, it is still difficult for the receiver to attack. Would be interested to see a close up slow-mo of his serve if anyone can find one. :)
     
  16. ahcash

    ahcash Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Vancouver
  17. visor

    visor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    16,401
    Likes Received:
    2,001
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Yes, I'm more interested in how he does it than the legality of it, which looks fine.

    At those times that I mentioned in my first post, if you slow down to 1/4 speed, you can see a short sharp undercut push with an open racket face with an equally short sharp supination jabbing motion to destabilize the shuttle.

    [MENTION=4876]R20190[/MENTION] you're right, we discussed it with Gollum on another service thread, about how this type if serve is good, but not consistent. And we can see that Lee made many serves short and too high that were punished.

    Still would be interesting to learn it, even just for the sake of knowing how to do it.
     
  18. visor

    visor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    16,401
    Likes Received:
    2,001
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
  19. EvoCopter

    EvoCopter Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    2
    Occupation:
    Technical Manager
    Location:
    Singapore
    Eventually the shuttle rights itself cock first. The best serve is to get the cock starting to point downwards as it just pass the net or to present the side of the shuttle as it pass the net and downwards (across/angular). If you look back to early days of the game. The best serve and server were those who could repeatly send the shuttle over skimming the top of the net and with the cock pointing downwards.

    We learn to counter a good S service back than by gently brushing it near the net. We knew than a flick service with the shuttle held inverted would not produce the same speed as with the cock been struck first and standing closer to the service line was not only to receive the S serve early but repeatedly to return and creating disruption.
     
  20. CantSmashThis

    CantSmashThis Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,152
    Likes Received:
    124
    Location:
    United States
    I actually tried his cut serve a few times at open gym today. I got two perfect ones that made the shuttle spin a lot, unfortunately, I need more push (and maybe hold it higher) to reach the service line though. Very interesting serve indeed. Too bad I don't have it down consistently to try it in a match yet.
     

Share This Page