Was Chen Jin cheating?

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Yes it is unfortunate.

More for the choice of word / phrasing which was misconstru-able rather than the intention.

I'm Always open to take lessons from wiser ppl. Thank you Isometric Kid!

Isometric_kid said:
It's unfortunate you have to blow your top and denounce a certain ethnic group on something you really weren't sure about it. Hope that next time you would think through the situation before you hurt yourself.
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Haha true!

Show me a man who is Smilling Joyfully and I will show you a single man. :D Joking.

Cheers

Cheung said:
:) One should have a list of possibilities and not have automatic assumptions. Let's assume the theory stands. Can you predict what would happen afterwards?

Perhaps the way CJ holds the shuttle annoys TH a lot intrinsically. To be honest, if I had an opponent behaving like TH, I would smile to myself inside and carry on annoying him!! I might smile or even wink to my coach (like in the World Cup 2006). BUT, would it be cheating and how can one predict any controversy afterwards?

I am sure in your life you have made some innocuous actions/decisions at one time and then later have seen it blown out of unpredictable proportions. (think of being married..:()
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kming said:
I admit that my testimony don't prove nothing and honestly i don't know my self what to think after having seeing that from my eyes.

I rewatched the game and from my testimony, here's some vid of what i saw:
- In the first game i saw Chen jin turning back and manipulated the shuttle. Don't know what he did with it -> There's is no evidence in the video because they always show the "slow repetition" (don't know the exact english word) or the public. You will have to believe me or not.
- Taufik seems very concerned with the shuttle since the first game -> You can see it when taufik bring back the shuttle to the line judge in this (sorry but i don't know how to cut) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkz7TRZLReg . See at at minute 2,10 and 6'39
- Taufik complained in the first game -> watch again this vid about the minute 9,00 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkz7TRZLReg
- After That taufik complained again in the second game and go to the judge line to take a shuttle to show the umpire. The umpire looks a bit confused. He even look to the line judge who looked confused to. I didn't not understand what they were saying. -> Vid showed by Chris at 9-4
- after that i looked at Chen jin and the umpire between each point. From that point Chen jin gave back the shuttle without manipulating it like i saw him doing in the first game. And the umpire was fixing Chen jin between each point until he saw chen jim making something on the shuttle (not like he did in the first game. It looks like he did like all the other player do ). When the umpire saw that he called Chen jin and took a look at the shuttle. He said something to Chen Jin. Then chen jin made a smile to the umpire saying no with the finger. and from that point Taufik did not complaine anymore. -> see this vid about the minute 3'56 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENUue4n-yPU

I have to do something but after that i will continue my post and give my conclusion
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you are doing ok

you play your part in supplying us vital information

you have been very helpful indeed

cheers!
 
Have you bought tubes of club shuttles which are too fast?

One way is to insert the grip of the racquet into the rim and twist it a few times.

the shuttle will travel slower . of course you have to use a lot of strength.

This has nothing to do with the world championships.
 
kming,
Agree with pBm. You are honest and meant no harm or to smear Chen Jin's reputation. You only report what you saw in the stadium and it must be hard on you. Thanks.
 
Bbn said:
Have you bought tubes of club shuttles which are too fast?
One way is to insert the grip of the racquet into the rim and twist it a few times.
the shuttle will travel slower . of course you have to use a lot of strength.
This has nothing to do with the world championships.
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Sir, I think most average players already know this. He He
 
kming said:
I admit that my testimony don't prove nothing and honestly i don't know my self what to think after having seeing that from my eyes.

I rewatched the game and from my testimony, here's some vid of what i saw:
- In the first game i saw Chen jin turning back and manipulated the shuttle. Don't know what he did with it -> There's is no evidence in the video because they always show the "slow repetition" (don't know the exact english word) or the public. You will have to believe me or not.
- Taufik seems very concerned with the shuttle since the first game -> You can see it when taufik bring back the shuttle to the line judge in this (sorry but i don't know how to cut) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkz7TRZLReg . See at at minute 2,10 and 6'39
- Taufik complained in the first game -> watch again this vid about the minute 9,00 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkz7TRZLReg
- After That taufik complained again in the second game and go to the judge line to take a shuttle to show the umpire. The umpire looks a bit confused. He even look to the line judge who looked confused to. I didn't not understand what they were saying. -> Vid showed by Chris at 9-4
- after that i looked at Chen jin and the umpire between each point. From that point Chen jin gave back the shuttle without manipulating it like i saw him doing in the first game. And the umpire was fixing Chen jin between each point until he saw chen jim making something on the shuttle (not like he did in the first game. It looks like he did like all the other player do ). When the umpire saw that he called Chen jin and took a look at the shuttle. He said something to Chen Jin. Then chen jin made a smile to the umpire saying no with the finger. and from that point Taufik did not complaine anymore. -> see this vid about the minute 3'56 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENUue4n-yPU

I have to do something but after that i will continue my post and give my conclusion
Click to expand...
Please don't bother wasting anymore of your effort or clutter this thread with more make believe stories. I just proved your observation is of no validity. You just admited your observation proved nothing. Anymore churning of your UMO (Unidentified Manipulated Object) reporting does not make your story more valid.
 
This thread could well be up there among the top ten!

At its current rate (number of postings per day and consistency), it must be in the Top ten amongst rapidly growing postings in a single thread!
 
kming said:
He did it in the second game. Iwas there and i saw it !!!!! I promise on my life !!!!

IF TV viewer didn't saw it i think it's because it was during a replay i think. Honestly i didn't see the match again since there.
I promise i will see the second game to let you know.

But from what i saw live in the stadium was this:
- In the first game i saw Chen jin turning back and manipulated the shuttle. Don't know what he did with it.
- Taufik complained with the umpire but he didn't listen to him. If i recall good it was the umpire to say something to taufik because he was taking time by looking to the shuttle. and Taufik responded something about the shuttles.
- After That taufik complained again in the second game and go to the judge line to take a shuttle to show the umpire. The umpire looks a bit confused. He even look to the line judge who looked confused to. I didn't not understand what they were saying.
- after that i looked at Chen jin and the umpire between each point. From that point Chen jin gave back the shuttle without manipulating it like i saw him doing in the first game. And the umpire was fixing Chen jin between each point until he saw chen jim making something on the shuttle (not like he did in the first game. It looks like he did like all the other player do ).
- When the umpire saw that he called Chen jin and took a look at the shuttle. He said something to Chen Jin. Then chen jin made a smile to the umpire saying no with the finger. and from that point Taufik did not complaine anymore.

I swear that it's what i saw on sunday.

And to those who will say that i'm a taufik fan i will respond that NO. I'm very happy that chen jin won the title because i always love his way of playing and style. My top 3 is Lin Dan, Chen Jin and Peter Gade. I think that he deserves the victory after the 3 place on OG , the second place on WC2009.

This thing disapointed me a little bit even if he was the better on court and really impressed me.

I don't know if he did something or not to the shuttle. It can be only a psycological game against taufik because taufik complains only against Chen jin and nobody else complain about Chen Jin from what i know.

But i think that it's not fair even if he played only a psychological game. He did'nt need that to win. But i'am shurely too much utopian... :)
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kming said:
I admit that my testimony don't prove nothing and honestly i don't know my self what to think after having seeing that from my eyes.

I rewatched the game and from my testimony, here's some vid of what i saw:
- In the first game i saw Chen jin turning back and manipulated the shuttle. Don't know what he did with it -> There's is no evidence in the video because they always show the "slow repetition" (don't know the exact english word) or the public. You will have to believe me or not.
- Taufik seems very concerned with the shuttle since the first game -> You can see it when taufik bring back the shuttle to the line judge in this (sorry but i don't know how to cut) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkz7TRZLReg . See at at minute 2,10 and 6'39
- Taufik complained in the first game -> watch again this vid about the minute 9,00 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkz7TRZLReg
- After That taufik complained again in the second game and go to the judge line to take a shuttle to show the umpire. The umpire looks a bit confused. He even look to the line judge who looked confused to. I didn't not understand what they were saying. -> Vid showed by Chris at 9-4
- after that i looked at Chen jin and the umpire between each point. From that point Chen jin gave back the shuttle without manipulating it like i saw him doing in the first game. And the umpire was fixing Chen jin between each point until he saw chen jim making something on the shuttle (not like he did in the first game. It looks like he did like all the other player do ). When the umpire saw that he called Chen jin and took a look at the shuttle. He said something to Chen Jin. Then chen jin made a smile to the umpire saying no with the finger. and from that point Taufik did not complaine anymore. -> see this vid about the minute 3'56 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENUue4n-yPU

I have to do something but after that i will continue my post and give my conclusion
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After reading through every single posts over 24 pages of this thread, I can bravely say that you kming is the the most qualified person to speak and your statement hold creditability. Why? Simple because you were there personally and saw the the whole incident by yourself. The rest like myself, were just watching it live on TV and could missed a lot of details.

For those who wanted to know whether CJ has done anything to the shuttle to play to his advantage, all I can say is to re-watch the whole match by yourself especially the part where the incident happened and read through all the posts in this thread to weight the reasons given by the forumers and come up with your own conclusion.

I already had mine.
 
Isometric_kid said:
Please don't bother wasting anymore of your effort or clutter this thread with more make believe stories. I just proved your observation is of no validity. You just admited your observation proved nothing. Anymore churning of your UMO (Unidentified Manipulated Object) reporting does not make your story more valid.
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you are a bad boy, isometric_kid!

will you give this guy a break?

he isn't a hater nor is he creating troubles here

he just told us what he can recall since he was there

can't you tell a person by his post?
 
Oh this thread is still going???????? :confused::confused::confused:
You guys are restless
Have not we made conclusion pages ago????
 
RSLvictorSOTX said:
This thread could well be up there among the top ten!

At its current rate (number of postings per day and consistency), it must be in the Top ten amongst rapidly growing postings in a single thread!
Click to expand...

actually there are 2 parts

the first part is to discuss whether chen jin did cheat

i repeat, discuss and not banging each other's ball

then each and everyone of us can conclude for yourself

what happen, did chen jin cheat or not or hell with the thread

and you have every right to that opinion of yours
 
I agree ,we seem to be going round and round ,worse when new posters appear out of nowhere

without reading from the top.

Some people still think shuttles cannot be slowed down,so I will start a thread in the General forum,its nothing to

do with wc2010, just learning how to handle different shuttles.

I think this "cheating" episode has long been concluded.
 
pBmMalaysia said:
actually there are 2 parts

the first part is to discuss whether chen jin did cheat

i repeat, discuss and not banging each other's ball

then each and everyone of us can conclude for yourself

what happen, did chen jin cheat or not or hell with the thread

and you have every right to that opinion of yours
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Exactly and to the point. Chen Jin won with a side topic regarding shuttle issue.
 
Bbn said:
I agree ,we seem to be going round and round ,worse when new posters appear out of nowhere

without reading from the top.

Some people still think shuttles cannot be slowed down,so I will start a thread in the General forum,its nothing to

do with wc2010, just learning how to handle different shuttles.

I think this "cheating" episode has long been concluded.
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Agree, please start the thread so that an in-depth take on the issue can be discuss at length w/o piggying back to whether there was cheating or not!
 
as the thread starter i agree to start a new thread to discuss this 'manipulating shuttle' on more technical rather than emotional issues...is there any technical badminton expert here?
 
Isometric_kid said:
Please don't bother wasting anymore of your effort or clutter this thread with more make believe stories. I just proved your observation is of no validity. You just admited your observation proved nothing. Anymore churning of your UMO (Unidentified Manipulated Object) reporting does not make your story more valid.
Click to expand...

Well I don't really understand your aggressiveness but nevermind.

I will conclude my previous post as i didn't have time this morning.
I understand that you do not believe me for my first point (the only one who i did'nt have an evidence) but all what i intended to say is that for me:
- The fact that TH looked concerned about the shuttle since the first game
- the fact that he complained two times during the match
- The fact that the umpire asked Chen Jin to see the shuttle
- the fact that the commentators immediatly spoke about the shuttle when Taufik complained
- the fact that the commentators who were professional players explained that some players used to manipulate the shuttle in order to slow it.

proves that there was something going in the court , like the commentators said in WC 2009 (see vids posted).

The fact is that we will never know what it was. For me there are 3 options:
- Chen jin used his experience to slow the shuttle a little bit like the commentators explained
- Chen jin played a mind game with taufik. (who knows what is the relation between the two?)
- Taufik imagine everything because he was looking a reason for the ultra dominance of Chen jin

With all I've read and see, I have my idea. I would says that is a mix of the three. But that's my opinion.

The only thing for sure is that Chen jin was the better player on the court on sunday and that i'm happy with his win.
 
well the best is to get taufik to explain more about his complains so that the world and the umpire will notice it in the future. ;) It's history. Lets move forward. And also get CJ to explain on his side. Am sure the media would like to have a piece of this since this is a hot topic. ;) They will be a hero. ;)

Oh, theres a way to counter slow shuttles, just brush the shuttle thro your sweat. It should speed it up. ;)
 
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